Aircrewman Qualifications?

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EMSCrew
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Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby EMSCrew » Tue Nov 25 2008, 11:03

Hey,

I'm not 100% sure if this was the right forum to post this topic so I'm sorry if I've done this incorrectly :)

I'm looking to start training to become a air crewman in hope of getting into the SAR/Emergency Services field and I'd like to know what qualifications I should get ? In a few months I'll be going up to QLD to do the air crewman/winch training through Careflight but what else do emergency service operators look for in a air crewman ?

I'd like to do this right

Thank you for any help !!
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby Oogle » Tue Nov 25 2008, 21:04

The CareFlight QLD instructors will give you a very good idea of what is required. It is not just the ability to carry out a winch but your interaction with the crew as a whole and your ability to think outside the square.

Good luck with the training - you will thoroughly enjoy your time up there.

One tip. If in doubt, ask questions. 8)
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby LHS » Wed Nov 26 2008, 00:06

EMS Crew,
good luck and enjoy the time on the Gold Coast, as Oogle said, if in doubt ask. I did the same thing a few years back, started at zero hours, zero crewman qualifications and now have enjoyed 8 or so years flying around the country side.
You will find that a few of the operators require a certain fitness standard for their crewman (swimming, aerobic and upper body), as they are expected to do down the wire (DTW) rescue work. Most require a some experience, anywhere up to 500 hours. You will also find a lot of ex military guys in the job, mainly ex Army or Navy, but that doesn't mean you won't get a break, most will pass on any info and tips if asked nicely.
Once you have your CAO 29.11 and a few hours training, start ringing around and talking to people. You may not get a start in the EMS world right off, but there are places like Australian Helicopters on the Customs contract in Torres Strait or possibly with some companies during the up coming fire season.
It's what you make of it and what your willing to do.
PM me if you like, for any info I can supply.

LHS
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mdav
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby mdav » Wed Nov 26 2008, 02:26

You have picked a tough area to get into, but now and again CHC takes on guys with no experience for air crew starting as a rescue swimmer and you make your way up. But to get a start on skills, get your bronze medelion and your level 3 first aid.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby EMSCrew » Mon Dec 1 2008, 13:04

Thank you all so much for your input.

I've spoken to a few people within the industry and the majority seem to speak highly in regards to the Carelight training while others have warned me to not be so willing to hand money over to the service. While some people may be turned off by the not so positive advice I'm still very willing to move forward and hopefully within the next year be up in Queensland training my arse off and learning all that i can.. I'm really looking forward to the hard work. I'm just waiting to hear back from a guy heavily involved in the Westpac service who I knew well during my teen years, sadly we lost contact over the years.

The military has been a suggestion - what do you guys think ? the information I've gathered says that to be even considered for the aircrewman role you have to serve for at least two years before the option becomes available. Opinions ?

A wonderful piece of information I've learnt is that no matter how many qualifications I have in this field, what I need the most is experience. I understand that I have to cut my teeth in other aircrew fields before heading straight into EMS/SAR which I don't mind as I'll need the experience and flight hours. I like the suggestion of Customs, what other areas would be worth looking into ?

I'm also going to get back into swimming, get back to be as good as what I used to and look into the rescue crewman role as a start.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby JT » Tue Dec 2 2008, 01:22

EMSCrew,

I did my Aircrewman Cert through careflight years ago and found them to be fantastic, if your a good bloke with the right attitude they
can put you in touch with almost anyone in the EMS industry. Go and check out CHC's website under Aircrewman, they advertise for guys/girls a fair bit.
There are two contracts in Victoria starting up next year, one in Essendon the other in Warnambool. I forget who is crewing them (I think it's Australian Helicopters)
Get in touch with them, they need people and also run crewing for the customs contracts up north.

To give you an idea of how competitive the EMS crewman industry is, QLD Rescue OR as they are now known EMQ in Brisbane recently advertised for a Rescue Crewman (Rescue Swimmer).
They had over 100 applicants for the position, combination of ex-military and civvy EMS guys. It is competitive, but not impossible. Just keep into them, keep fit and be humble.

I'd recommend getting your CAO 29.11 from Careflight, then getting your Bronze Medallion (Rescue Swimming) and Senior First Aid.
These are the basics you will need before anyone will look at you. Then if you get the spare time, study the Aviation Basic Aeronautical Knowledge Exam or (BAK).
This is an exam most pilots sit when they start there training, it is designed to teach someone who knows little or nothing about aviation, something about aviation
and aircraft operations, using the radio, terminology, weather and general knowledge.
If you get your BAK exam passed, it just shows your keen and know something about aviation. I have seen crewman positions that ask for a BAK exam pass.

Another good way to break into the industry is through fixed-wing, I know Aerorescue and Surveillance Australia are LOOKING right NOW for Crewman/Loadmasters/Observers.
All you do is spend your time in the back of a Dash-8 fixed-wing patrolling the coastline on customs contracts, they will take people with NO experience, then after 12 months
of that you have some experience and could move on into the Rotary Rescue side of things. Just a thought.

PM me if you want more info, as I could go on for bloody ages.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby winchman » Wed Dec 10 2008, 01:57

EMScrew pm me your details

Winchman :wink:
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby zoomcage » Wed Dec 10 2008, 10:35

Hi EMS

I would be very hesitant about conducting the Careflight course in order to enter the industry. The course will give a ‘basic’ qualification, and I reiterate the word basic; just a few hours, or more depending on your bank balance. As with all things aviation there is a cost and I am sure Careflight will be happy to take your thousands of dollars in exchange for a CAO 20.11 endorsement. The question is what will this ‘qualification’ give you?

The hash reality is that the majority of operators require some form of flying experience prior to employment, you know this. This requirement is normally dictated by the client. If you came to me with a 20.11 and 5 hours of flying experience you wouldn’t be employable as an aircrewman. That is a fact. You would need something over 200hrs to be considered. Keep in mind being an aircrewman is more than just operating a winch. Most aircrewman operate in the front seat and carry out non-pilot related duties so their aviation experience is invaluable.

So what to do; I agree with JT and you should gain as many appropriate qualifications as possible. I suggest skip the Careflight course initially. The BAK is a great starting point particularly for someone that has no previous aviation background. HUET, dangerous goods awareness certificate, at least a CASA Class 2 medical and be physically fit would also be advantageous. Then contact CHC, Australian Helicopters, EMQ, Surf or alike and enquire about being a rescue crewman, even as a casual. A rescue crewman is a great starting point and will give you an excellent insight into being an aircrewman. It will also build flying experience for you. If you stick it out then after a period of time it will be an easy transition to aircrewman and most probably all paid for by the company. The key here is be persistent, I don’t mean bug the living hell out of people but get to know who is who and make sure they have your details. Aviation is reactive, if something comes up and your resume is handy and they have spoken to you then you have good shot.

If you are set on the Careflight course ask whether Careflight with take you on as a casual crewman especially after you spend thousands of dollars with them. Ask what your job prospects are after you complete the training. Their response will be a confirmation of the reality.

If you have time then the Army is a fantastic option. You can now join the army and select aviation as your preference. You will initially train as ground crew with a view to training as an aircrewman. You will need to spend a period of time as ground crew but it is worth the wait. The army is short of aircrewman so the wait could be less than 2 years. Spend 4 – 6 years in the army as an aircrewman and you will be extremely employable. The army will give you excellent qualifications and skills all paid for. We aim for ex military, there is little training and they know their S###.

If you need any further advice just PM me.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby BlackHawk Crewie » Mon Dec 15 2008, 13:16

Hi EMS,

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in re the military angle. I did 20 years in the military as a crewman for most of them, first in the Navy as a crewie on B model Iroquois and squirrels and then in the Army on H model Hueys and Blackhawks, gathered a few thousand hours between them all. While I was in a Sydney based job I also did volunteer weekend work for NRMA Careflight on the old Dauphine they used to have.

I highly recommend crewman work, its fascinating and exciting. It puts you in contact every day with people who are passionate about one thing, flying. I have not had any exposure to the crewman training at Careflight in Brissy but I do know a couple of guys who worked for them for a while and they both tell me it’s a good place.

I wanted to have a word about the military option. You are correct in your statement about having to be in a separate job in the Navy and Army for a couple of years before you become a crewman. In the Navy you used to have to be either a radar plotter, an aircraft maintainer or a ground handler (aircraft re-fuller / aircraft movements guy) for a couple of years before you could apply, not sure if this has changed. In the Army you can now be selected at the recruiting level to be an Aircrewman Loadmaster but you still need to be a ground handler first for a couple of years. This gives you piece of mind that you are going to be a loadie at some stage though (they don't call them loadmasters any more, I think its just Aircrewman now, I've been out for 10 years so I'm not up with the latest). The reason the Army puts you through ground handler first is to teach you various things such as refuelling, radio operations (HF and UHF techniques), flight following (for example, ground handlers will provide flight following and initial SAR response for remote helicopter operations outside controlled airspace, places like far north western Australia etc), these and other training benefits build a great base knowledge before your Aircrewman training, they are all needed afterwards, I couldn't count the number of times I refuelled a Blackhawk in remote Aust or PNG from 44 gallon drums while the pilots went off and did whatever pilots do :D

Having completed both the Navy and Army Aircrewman courses I am in a good position to compare them (assuming they haven't changed too much). The Navy course has far more detailed training in Navigation, Metrology and, surprisingly enough, ship borne operations while the Army has far more focus on confined area operations, tactics, aerial gunnery etc. I did conduct ship borne ops in the Army as well and the techniques are identical. I also completed NVG training in the Army, I'm not sure if the Navy has started this as yet (I assume they do now). Having done a couple of years of civi rescue work there are aspects of both services training that are beneficial to the civi work, the Navy Nav and approach procedure training is great for the front seat work you have to do while the confined area and high winch work you are taught in the Army was probably a bit better for the odd cliff rescue etc. The Navy is far more civilised if you like the idea of showering every day ha ha but I enjoyed the 'wariness' of the Army, personal choice I guess. One thing I have noticed is that the majority if not all civi EMS groups use Navy patter which is a little different to Army patter but you could adapt to either easily. Both services drum into you the safety aspects of everything you do, I must admit, and please those who read this don't take offence, I was occasionally frightened by some of the things I saw civi trained crewmen do like refuelling with out grounding the aircraft :shock: This may not be the fault of the training, maybe that guy was just lazy, who knows... Any way, you can be assured that the training you get in either service is outstanding. The military pay these days is also pretty good, base salary plus allowances for maintaining your qualifications and flying disability allowance (weird name for 'danger pay' I guess). You also get up to seven weeks leave a year.. :lol:

Another thing to remember is the Navy has a limited choice of aircraft, the Army does your basic training on H model Hueys now I think, then there is the choice between Blackhawk and Chinook and they are getting the new MRH90 soon.

It is certainly a big decision to go into the services as you are locked in for at least four years however the up side is excellent training that you are paid to do rather than paying for it yourself, if you are keen have a look around here: http://www.defencejobs.gov.au

Also don't forget all three services are gagging for more pilots, maybe you should consider a job flying a Tiger around...
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EMSCrew
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby EMSCrew » Fri Dec 26 2008, 06:38

Two amazing opportunities have been brought to my attention - one of those was because of this forum which i found really great. If that opportunity progresses as I hope it will, I don't think there will be a word to describe how amazing I'll feel ha ha

i've spoken to someone i know who works for westpac not too long ago & he pretty much said my best bet is to start as a rescue crewman & make my way up to aircrewman. I have no problem with starting in that position, infact I'm looking forward to the hard work ahead of me. I'm going to spend the next month or two focusing on improving my swimming, getting physically fit & in about 4 months i'll go for my bronze in lifesaving. As I said there will be a lot of hard work ahead but there's nothing more fun then a challenge.

I really appreciate all the advice, information various guys have given me in relation to this topic, thank you - thank you.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby CYHeli » Sat Dec 27 2008, 01:03

EMSCrewie also have a look at this site - http://www.caaa.com.au/.
Consider doing the correspondence CRM course. It is another tick in the box and as crew of any sort it is good training.
They also run a dangerous Goods Awareness Course, but you can find them closer to home.

Good luck.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
Para 11
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby Para 11 » Sun Jun 20 2010, 11:38

Hey all,

Just joined so not sure if this is the right thing to do!!

I was wondering if any one has heard of or done any training with a company called Global Rescue??
I am thinking of doing some training with them and am wondering if any one know about them.
Would greatly appreciate some feed back.
Cheers
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby Erbine » Sun Jun 20 2010, 12:18

I thought careflight were the only ones who did the crewman stuff.
Are there more company's out there who are doing crewman Tickets :?:
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications.?

Postby FerrariFlyer » Sun Jun 20 2010, 22:58

Para 11 wrote:Hey all,

Just joined so not sure if this is the right thing to do!!

I was wondering if any one has heard of or done any training with a company called Global Rescue??
I am thinking of doing some training with them and am wondering if any one know about them.
Would greatly appreciate some feed back.
Cheers
Para 11


I would suggest some research on Global Rescue as there was a thread within the last 6-12 months that had some less then flattering comments re their training courses.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby stretch15 » Tue Oct 5 2010, 10:06

Has anyone completed any of these training courses lately? If so can you tell me how its been and approx price?
Also what about work expereince afterwards? I've done a few days training with AGL doing engineering. But thats a bit different :)
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havick
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby havick » Tue Oct 5 2010, 10:37

An interesting point worth considering for all potential crewies..

I currently fly the B412 that is contracted to the army for loadmaster (crewie) training as well as SAR for the base with a 2nd B412. The last course that recently graduated and are now on Blackhawk conversion, two of the loadmaster trainees joined the Army reserve and after the minimum 2 years or whatever it is, then transferred to regular Army as a means to be selected for loadmaster course.

In a nutshell, a precedent has been set. ie join the reserves then transfer across to full time if you are successful with selection for loadmaster. Essentially you are hedging your bets in case you are un-successful with your transfer and can continue along with normal civvie life without being locked into a trade/rate that you're not necessarily interested in.

A bit of a backdoor for those who are only interested in being a loadmaster.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby Rotorpilot » Thu Oct 1 2020, 01:02

Bump pop;

With the way things are are the moment Im considering looking to go from the front seat to the back. Is there any more recent info or advice on making the change?
Ive got: bronze medallion, Avmed class 1, 500hrs flight time, HUET(over 2yrs ago) ESS, seas survival cert,
And potentially do IREX.

ie - job prospects: Bristow, chc, Australian helicopters, lifeflight, westpac etc

pros and cons of lifeflight training vs joining army/navy
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby LCMP » Thu Oct 1 2020, 04:48

Yeah nah, unfortunately for you the 500 pilot hours don’t count and even if you did the Lifelight course it would be an expensive way to restart the hours clock.
It would be the same as an Aircrewman with thousands of hours getting an offshore job with a brand new CPL.
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Re: Aircrewman Qualifications?

Postby Big Wave » Wed Oct 7 2020, 06:20

Rotorpilot wrote:Bump pop;

With the way things are are the moment Im considering looking to go from the front seat to the back. Is there any more recent info or advice on making the change?
Ive got: bronze medallion, Avmed class 1, 500hrs flight time, HUET(over 2yrs ago) ESS, seas survival cert,
And potentially do IREX.

ie - job prospects: Bristow, chc, Australian helicopters, lifeflight, westpac etc

pros and cons of lifeflight training vs joining army/navy



Why not apply for Army pilot?

Time are tough no doubt...

I’ve heard some EMS operators are receiving Aircrewman applications from redundant airline pilots..... Army are currently not receiving the number of Aircrewman applicants, through to the selection board as they’d like. Around 50% of initial applicants get binned by aviation medical, for varied reasons. Having said that, those that get through the selection board are quickly placed on the next scheduled cse.

A heap of ex airline pilots are now working as reservists looking for full time employment in both RAAF and Army.....times are tough.

A mate of mine was a crewman at Capricorn rescue a few years ago, wanted to join the Army as a crewy. He joined Army Aviation initially as a groundcrewman, did minimum time (Around 12 months) before submitting his Aircrewman application. He’s been a Army crewy now for 10+ years and loves it.

Army Aircrewman pay’s great, training is first class, opportunities are endless - for example I’ve worked and flown in the UK, Belize,East Timor, PNG,Attended HAI and the Goodrich hoist conference In Anaheim. Job security is rock solid (unless you step on your d*^k).

If your are keen in the option PM me cheers

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