HELICOPTER REPRESENTATION

[helibird]

I don't normally reply to items on this forum but feel that this one where I cannot stay silent. For Rob Rich's first year as President I assisted him in raising the profile of the HAA and for the next 2 years I was the secretary of the HAA. The facts are that when Rob took over the Association from Mike Becker there were 88 individual members and no corporate ones. By the end of my first year as secretary there were in excess of 480 individual members and around 15 corporate members. Rob did all of this whilst he ran Heli-News and didn't receive a salary from it. Yes it probably helped with the circulation of the magazine but hey, this was all he got from it. He also donated at least 4 pages from the magazine to the Association per month.
Where is the Association now? We all know where it is. The facts are this
1. An association is only as good as the guy/girl at the top and if they are not respected within the industry then no-one will join.
2. It takes extreme dedication to run an industry association and without a salary I doubt you will ever get anyone to give up their time.
3. If you want representation then as a body we have to come together but as you say Who will put their hand up?
Here is my hand to assist anyone again who is willing to stand at the top, I am more than happy to help.

[Heli-Ops]

I am in the process of making some calls to various people to see if we can get a few to form a committee. Will post back here after I hear back from some of them. How about a few of you doing the same and lets see what we can get going.

Bite-Me, Just to add AOPA has plenty of experience on the fixed wing side but NOT on the helo side. I am confident we can find a group of say five people to get this new assn up and running.

Ned

[Heli]

GAPAN is not a good option at all as they are a-political and do not advocate and are a UK based organisation.

You've some factual errors there: they are extremely well represented on Industry consultative committees, and have a strong input to CASA. There are currently only two helicopter pilots on the Technical Committee, but there is lots of room for input from all members. The Guild is certainly in London, but Australia is very strong local organisation.

[HeliNews]

HeliNews has supported the industry for as long as we have been publishing it, and I know Rob did so before us. We would support a new association or organisation, however given the HAA Managements recent performance we would have trouble supporting any new association that comprises the same people.

The industry needs new people to get this of the ground, having the same person/people is just going to get us the same result – Nothing.

[harold]

HeliNews, that is a very negative observation on behalf of a magazine purported to be representative of this industry. Rosemarie is but one person on the AOPA committee and it is a start. All the garbage on here about starting up another Association is gobblygook....this stuff just doesn't happen overnight and regardless of who heads it up, we have the issue of establishing credibility, finances etc etc. AOPA is probably a bloody good starting point for this to happen and they do have the resources to get the ball rolling. I go along with Coriolis on this one. We need representation and the quicker this can happen, the better.
It has been said before; if you don't like the makeup (and lots of us don't) then join and put your hand up for a position on the committee.

[Bite_me]

Heli, I'll make the point again...GAPAN does not advocate! They certainly do make representations to CASA and a whole lot of other bodies but they do not advocate individual issues like AOPA does and the HAA used to do. They are a UK based organisation with branches in Australia and New Zealand and elsewhere and GAPAN does wonderful things for the aviation industry as a whole. They do not have an independent branch for helicopters though and this is where AOPA is trying to pick up the challenge and run with it. I think on the strength of the issues here and the time frame needed to be effective, AOPA is a very solid choice for true industry representation.
HeliNews,I'm with Harold on this one and you too might have missed the big picture. AOPA is steering the change via a seperate committee for the helicopter industry. I doubt Rosemarie will be in a position to do those things she has been accused of with the HAA; accusations by the way that are unproven and probably quite malicious. For the record, MB was instrumental in her elevation to the head of the HAA at a time when no-one else was interested in the job.
All I say is don't blow this opportunity through nitpicking and inaction. Let's get behind AOPA and see where it leads us! We certainly can't be any worse off than we are now?

[CYHeli]

Might be time to join AOPA, after all, it is a Pilots' Association.
If they are creating a helicopter committee then happy days.

Ned, although not a pilot, you are involved in this industry and derive an income from it, so why not join as well?
You have as much right as an engineer or anyone else who is a non-pilot who works within the industry.

[nathan_m]

just an update on this as of 12/1/2010

AOPA has now committed to forming a helicopter committee within the AOPA structure.

Rosemarie Mcrae will not be heading up this committee due to business commitments and Peter Holstein (CFI/CP Aerowasp helicopters) has accepted the position of director of the helicopter Committee. From Discussions with Peter today, I can tell you that AOPA is very seriously committed to working closely with the Helicopter Industry and I believe Peter might have some encouraging news concerning membership for those considering joining AOPA.

[bladepitch]

I know hollie well. he conducted my instructor rating a few years ago. if he is at the helm. good on him! he knows a lot of people in the industry and CASA like him. i know he will give 100% to making it work for all involved.

[hand in pants]

I must say that with Hollie involved, I will seriously consider joining aopa.
This industry does need someone to stick up for it and Pete would be good for it.
Look forward to seeing results.

[CaptSpry]

Peter will do a great job. He has done a lot for the industry and we need someone with a lot of experience to get the ball rolling once again. Please give them your support.

[Peter Holstein]

Thank you to the encouraging posts above.
I am now in a position to fill you in a little more on the way ahead in the matter of Helicopter Industry Representation.
Rosemarie McRae has accepted work elsewhere and as a consequence of her work commitments, has resigned from the AOPA Directorship. I have accepted the position of Director of the Helicopter Committee within AOPA.
The Board of AOPA have expressed a very keen and enthusiastic desire to form and support a committee within their own organisation specifically designed to address the issues confronting the helicopter fraternity. Understandably, a lot of those issues are not unique to us but are common with all other airspace users and where overlap occurs, AOPA will address these issues in a manner they consider best suits the circumstances.
AOPA is prepared to put their money where their mouth is and they have made an outstanding offer to all Helicopter Industry personnel who may be interested in joining.
Go to the following link: http://www.aopa.com.au/ to learn more about AOPA and the many services they provide/offer.
If you are interested in joining, send an email to mail@aopa.com.au with your name and address and include 'HELO TRIAL" in the subject heading and AOPA will send you a couple of their magazines and a FREE MEMBERSHIP for 3 months WITH NO OBLIGATION TO JOIN if you don't like what you see!
I invite anyone with Industry concerns to PM me anytime to discuss anything concerning Helicopter Aviation issues that might need addressing, though I do remind people that AOPA and myself cannot become involved with commercial, personal or private matters.

[Peter Holstein]

Update on AOPA initiative:

AOPA is now offering ALL Helicopter fraternity personnel four (4) months FREE trial membership to AOPA as per the instructions of the previous post. Unless instructed otherwise, on completion of the Trial Period, AOPA will activate the full twelve month membership commencing from the expiry date of the Trial Period, so the offer truly is 4 months free trial membership. I personally think this offer is quite remarkable and certainly worthy of consideration by everyone involved in the helicopter industry and I encourage everyone to seriously consider the implications of not having the proper Industry Representation in these sometimes difficult times.

[vortexstate]

After the demise of our voice within the industry, HAA, I feel it is time that we place more credibility on those that are willing to lead us into the future of aviation. AOPA may have seemed a bit of a toothless tiger at times but it has always had quiet a fair voice for the fixed wing fraternity and maybe it is time to merge the defences to maintain our industry.

With the major implimentations and changes during the last number of years most of the industry has sat back and silently watched it all unfold (I too am guilty of this silence). As to whether it has been the " I'm to busy with work and life to be bothered" or just plain slack, a lot has passed us by with very little challenges from those that count...... us!

Don't take me out of context, there have been some warriors over the years taking up the challenge, Rob Rich, Dan Tyler, knob Smith (don't need a bagging for this one) and the like, but it always appears to be a minority effort.

2010 maybe the year to make things happen and the only way that shall happen is to get behind Peter Holstein, Peter Cooke,Terry Summers (AHAG) and others within the industry that are prepared to work for our benifit.

[Peter Holstein]

Gregory J Pxxxxx
12th January 2010
Committee Secretary
Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600
Submission to Inquiry into the Effectiveness of Airservices Australia’s Management of Aircraft Noise.
I submit that Airservices Australia should review the guidelines which govern the flight paths used by medivac helicopters over residential areas.
I acknowledge that the usual reaction to such a proposal is that it would interfere with the ability of medivac to respond quickly to a situation.
However – for every flight to a hospital there is one flight back to base, and on many occasions these helicopters are taking crew members back to their work locations or to a destination for non urgent reasons. In which case they could adopt a flight path appropriate for a non emergency aircraft.
Consider residents who live in the vicinity of a major hospital with a helipad. Such hospitals can receive up to a dozen flights per day – at any time of the day or night. I contend that a review be made of present guidelines which govern the flight paths and altitude of these helicopters.
At present, it is the case that the place of origin of the flight determines the approach path and vice versa. There appears to be no regard for the type of settlement beneath the flight path. Be it urban residential, high density residential, open park land, roads, railways or what ever.
Also some pilots stay at around 500 ft until they are over the hospital grounds and then descend to the pad. Others descend to 200 ft or less about 500 metres from the hospital and then come in at that altitude over houses. Of course wind speed and direction have some bearing on the approach and take off path.
The Energex BK117 helicopter at 200 ft above one’s house registers more than 100 decibels of engine noise at ground level, and you add to that the noise of “blade slap” which causes much discomfort.
I also acknowledge that the rescue helicopter service is somewhat of a “sacred cow” issue which enjoys a high level of public support. But that should not mean
they operate without regard to residents who have been living for years under what has now become busy flight paths for noisy helicopters. Airfields are normally located away from residential areas but in this case an airfield has moved into a residential area. There are presently regulations regarding flight altitude but nothing regarding flight paths.
The standard rebuttal of the non-technical on this subject is to say (a) Approach flight paths are governed entirely by wind at all times – not true! I am told that helicopter pilots can accommodate winds up to 8 knots which does not influence approach or take-off direction. (b) Every second counts in a medivac mission – not true! – Around 80% of patients are stabilized before the flight and so a few seconds is not critical. And we are talking of a possible maximum of 20 seconds in a 20 to 30 minute flight.
So I submit that:-
1)That Airservices Australia should formulate regulations/recommendations governing helicopter approach and departure flight paths over residential areas so that flight paths would avoid residential areas. Traffic could be over major roads or over commercial areas or along water course alignments or over open space – Such regulation would apply particularly to night flights.
2)That Airservices Australia should regulate the altitude of emergency helicopter flights over residential areas and provide guidelines to pilots on procedures for landing and take-off in residential areas so as to have minimal noise impact to nearby residents.
Greg Pxxxxx

Anyone really ever wondered why we might need Industry Representation, read the submission to AirServices above!

[bladepitch]

Pete.

Send that F%#ker a letter that states when he is in desperate need of heli med transfer that he will be not accepted by the organisation conducting the operation. Then give his address to all the people whos lives it has saved and hand them hand them a copy of his letter.

hhmmmfff.... out of all the billions of sperm, that one got through!

better off send it to a current affair and let them take a patient around to his house with cameras and watch him squirm.

[Peter Holstein]

In my opinion, what this case does is highlight the need for a *decent* helicopter pilot's association. One that has the full support of fellow pilots & is able to fight for our rights, be there to support us in times of need. An association that is not afraid to take on Casa when needed, like now.

(This quote from another thread posted by MUDGEE.

The matter referred to is the type of issue that cannot be taken up by any association, whether they be AOPA, GAPAN, HAA etc etc. The matter was a personal regulatory issue between an Operator and CASA. To suggest that somehow an association could get involved in matters of this ilk is unreasonable. The whole idea of an Industry Association is to address issues that affect us as an Industry, like airspace concerns, certain administrative issues, regulatory matters etc. I suggest that even if the HAA had been operational, this is not the type of matter that they could have assisted with other than in a purely advisory role. Financially, any other action would be impractical.

John and Company have remedies at their disposal to address any wrong-doing as we infact all do. It is incumbent upon them now to take any action they deem suitable/warranted to address these issues.

[helibird]

Just been on the AOPA site and after a cursury glance have been unable to find the anual membership costs. Anyone know?
HB

[Peter Holstein]

Helibird, Sorry about that!
Link to AOPA membership form is: http://www.aopa.com.au/member/join

Don't forget in the Club Box to put HELO OFFER to get the 4 months free membership!

Pricing structure is:
Affiliated Membership (Organisations/clubs etc) $135.00 p/a
Standard 1 year personal $134.00 p/a
Member of Affiliated Organisation/Club $107.00 p/a
Over 65 and students $107.00 p/a

[havick]

Hi Peter,

I sent an email requesting the trial as per your instructions about a month ago and as yet have recieved no response?

Any ideas?

Cheers, Jimmy