CASR Part 61 Question and Answers

[CYHeli]

Here's one for you.
61.235 Flight tests for flight crew licences and ratings—prerequisites

Para (2) (c) if the flight test is to be conducted in an aircraft:
(i) the applicant holds a current medical certificate of the class required for the exercise of the privileges of the licence; or
...
(iii) the applicant holds a medical exemption for the exercise of the privileges of the licence.

So the old days of sitting a CPL test holding a class 2 medical - Gone!
Must hold a Class 1 to sit a CPL or ATPL flight test.

Safety case? Not much I would imagine...

But does it matter?

61.240 Consequences of taking flight test when ineligible
An applicant for a flight crew licence or rating is taken not to have passed a flight test if, when the applicant took the flight test, the applicant was not eligible under regulation 61.235 to take the flight test.

[Heli]

The Part 61 authorisation for conducting fire fighting operations is an aerial application rating plus helicopter fire fighting endorsement. To conduct an operation using a bucket, you need to hold a low-level rating and sling operation endorsement.
Fire fighting operations are conducted under an AOC that authorises the operation. Also, controls are in place under state and territory fire control agencies that manage fire fighting operations.
Operators are required to ensure their pilots are competent at conducting this particular kind of operation. This involves training and a check.

There is no specific fire fighting authorisation under the current system that matches the fire fighting endorsement. Therefore, CASA is proposing to make an exemption that will in effect maintain the current arrangements. The exemption is expected to be for one year. We will publicise this over the coming days to ensure everyone is aware of the arrangements for 1 September 2014.

Apart from not actually having the much mooted exemption yet, my reading of the reply from CASA is that we have to have the helicopter firefighting endorsement plus an aerial application rating (the old ag rating).

I can't see that in the new Part 61, which only appears to require the firefighting endorsement. Anyone agree/disagree?

What a cluster

[CYHeli]

Apart from not actually having the much mooted exemption yet, my reading of the reply from CASA is that we have to have the helicopter firefighting endorsement plus an aerial application rating (the old ag rating).

In short, correct.

The new Ag rating is called Aerial Application... The application part is the dropping of chemicals, seeds, and .. water.

There are now two endorsements under the Aerial App Rating; aerial application AND fire fighting.

You only need the second endorsement to conduct fire fighting and for most fire pilots, the training that they had previously conducted prior to the season will become a 'course'. Initially the CP will sign off the pilots under the yet to be seen exemption, and later the rating (together with endorsement) will be renewed every two years as part of a test. (The new term for renewal is Proficiency check)

Most (but certainly not all) of the relevant CP's will actually be an examiner who can conduct the proficiency check at not too much extra cost to the company. It's the companies with a CP who is not an examiner and casual / seasonal pilots who will suffer.

[CYHeli]

Copy of fire fighting exemption.
http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014L01181

[Jabberwocky]

So, anyone who hasn't been 'trained' in firefighting wrt the company's operations manual since the beginning of March will not be exempt? Am I reading that correctly?

Can we get all Padme-like and put in a vote of no confidence to CASA...

[Zeus1980]

1. As a student pilot doing the 2 aircraft syllabus am I now required to do a flight test in both the R22 and R44 or does one aircraft count for the other?

2. If I need both could I book both tests on the same day? (Or am I being over confident that I will pass initially )

[SuperF]

That would be right jabber wacky, because you do all your training and assessment of your fire crews at the end of the season, not now, at the beginning...

Looks like you better have all your fire pilots sorted for this year, you won't be taking on any new guys...

[havick]

SuperF, what the exemption is saying is that up until the end of this fire season that to operate on the fires you have to have a low level endorsement, sling rating and have undergone a company check flight within the previous six months of operating on the fires. So really it's no different to what we do now. Obviously after the exemption expires at the end of this fire season then you'll need the relevant part 61 ratings.

[SuperF]

Lol, ok. I read it as you already had to have done the training... Sounds better your way.

[hand in pants]

fire fighting operation means an operation involving the dropping of water and fire retardant.

So according to the exemption fire fighting is only dropping of water and fire retardant.
Does this mean that dropping just water isn't?
Does this mean that air attack isn't?
Does this mean that ferrying fire fighters to an from fires isn't?
Does this mean aerial mapping isn't??

Very open to interpretation...................................

[CYHeli]

1. As a student pilot doing the 2 aircraft syllabus am I now required to do a flight test in both the R22 and R44 or does one aircraft count for the other?

2. If I need both could I book both tests on the same day? (Or am I being over confident that I will pass initially )

Good question and I emailed this to CASA yesterday.
One possible answer is that a Grade 1 instructor can issue endorsements. Therefore you can do the test in one aircraft, but get endorsed on both.
We have to wait on that one, so until then, yes do the test over two aircraft.

[froginasock]

"One possible answer is that a Grade 1 instructor can issue endorsements. Therefore you can do the test in one aircraft, but get endorsed on both.
We have to wait on that one, so until then, yes do the test over two aircraft"

.... Grade 1 can issue endorsement .. but as a 'type' I think both these particular types will need individual flight 'tests' as they not just 'class' helicopters. Just to make your CPL test day harder you would complete all aspects in one 'type' (R44) and then be tested on the other 'type' (R22) (or vice versa) for the non-common elements (as I 'currently' understand it - it's really difficult giving students accurate advice at the moment without trying to contact an FOI or CASA licensing - and even then it's not easy) ...

Interestingly when all schools transition onto the new scheme it will be somewhat unlikely to be able to do all of your flying in just an R22 ... unless an operator really, really wants a 'Night r22' ( ... remember project OS1401 as well). So sorry to the future mustering pilot - but unless you're going to conduct an integrated course you're likely to train in an aeroplane, an R22 and probably an R44 .. so that you can spend the next several years of your life in an R22 where you need as much experience as possible - and you'll most likely do 3 flight tests - PPL aeroplane and CPL flight tests in the R22 & 44. Integrated you'll end up in an R22 & R44 (luckily no aeroplane)

[CYHeli]

One possible answer is that a Grade 1 instructor can issue endorsements.

CASA are considering an instrument similar to the examiner one that will allow a grade 1 to grant type endorsements like they currently do.
The instrument would run for a year and allow the grade 1's to transition to an FTE or just drop off the list.

It is a discussion point only at this stage.

Hey Frog, you forgot to add the low level rating flight test!
And sling if they want to have a really busy day.

[Simplex]

What about incendiary operations?
Where does Drip Torch or Raindance fit into the regulations? If you were to have an incident with aerial ignition operations and the questions is asked if you were qualified and endorsed to carry out the ops in the first place.
NAFC treats it as one if you look at their manual.
http://www.nafc.org.au/portal/DesktopMo ... mentID=196
If there was another Margaret River fire, who would the lawyers chase this time?

[Bitch Slapper]

Havick

SuperF, what the exemption is saying is that up until the end of this fire season that to operate on the fires you have to have a low level endorsement, sling rating and have undergone a company check flight within the previous six months of operating on the fires. So really it's no different to what we do now. Obviously after the exemption expires at the end of this fire season then you'll need the relevant part 61 ratings.

One thing I can see is bucket check flights lasted for 12 months in most companies, now they only last for 6 months, so that doubles the training/check flights per year!

[Evil Twin]

CASA are considering an instrument similar to the examiner one that will allow a grade 1 to grant type endorsements like they currently do.

So on day one of the new rules CASA are already having to introduce instruments and exemptions to fix their monumental fur lined ocean going balls up. What a bunch of clowns. At least they don't seem to care how incompetant they are proving themselves to be. Industry should be challenging their mandate in court.

and from the transport minster?? Silence............

[froginasock]

Havick

SuperF, what the exemption is saying is that up until the end of this fire season that to operate on the fires you have to have a low level endorsement, sling rating and have undergone a company check flight within the previous six months of operating on the fires. So really it's no different to what we do now. Obviously after the exemption expires at the end of this fire season then you'll need the relevant part 61 ratings.

One thing I can see is bucket check flights lasted for 12 months in most companies, now they only last for 6 months, so that doubles the training/check flights per year!

let's not forget the ANNUAL Low Level Flight Review at your 'local' training school.

[Zeus1980]

CY,

Am I being over confident thinking that I could do both tests on the same day? Especially since it will by first flight test...

[CYHeli]

CY,

Am I being over confident thinking that I could do both tests on the same day? Especially since it will by first flight test...

That's a question for your school/CFI mate. It's all about your capability and not loading you up unnecessarily. Depending on when your flight test is, CASA may have come with a solution.

[Crowman]

Just looking through the new forms and found this;

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/m ... 61-1rh.pdf

I have more than 25 hours in an aeroplane, does this mean I can sit my RPL(H) license test?