ATPL under Part 61

[Letsgoflying]

So is my understanding correct, if I am to pass my ATPL's now I get a credit for my exam passes??

Is there an expiry on the credit or does it stay current until you pass the flying component??

Thanks

[CYHeli]

61.700 Requirements for grant of air transport pilot licences— general
...
(3)The applicant must also have:
(a) passed the aeronautical knowledge examination for the air transport pilot licence and the associated aircraft category rating; and...

61.220 Aeronautical knowledge examinations—air transport pilot licence

I'll let you read up, but there is no mention of an expiry date for the exams prior to conducting the flight test.

[Letsgoflying]

Thank You CYHELI.

[AHIA]

CYHeli,

Thanks again for helping our guys understand the new rules. Without your in depth assessments we would be paddling up "s#&%" creek.

AHIA

[widewindsidewinder]

CYHeli,

Thanks again for helping our guys understand the new rules. Without your in depth assessments we would be paddling up "s#&%" creek.

AHIA

Agreed!

[Imout]

I would hope that shortly (next 6-12 months) there will be a solution for ATPL(H)
Our new simulator has just been approved for 50 hours of ATPL training. This will allow the MCC component to be completed.
Next step will be the testing which can happen in a light single turbine helicopter (Jet Ranger)
Some of us already qualify as ATPL ATOs as we hold ATPLs, CIRs and are ATOs so it should not be to big a step.
Process for becoming a Part 142 is underway
Rest assured there are members of the industry working behind the scenes to facilitate these changes and CASA are also trying to help in this it is just a slow process.
My best suggestion is you just keep trucking on as usual and when you become eligible for an ATPL test then go looking for a Part 142 school that may be able to help.

[bladepitch]

any ideas on a an expected cost for people to pursue this license or to early to predict?

[Imout]

To early to predict but assuming you already hold a CIR before going for your ATPL, have done all the ATPL subjects you then need to do a MCC (unless waived during the transition) which hopefully can be done in a sim you then need to do a test in the helicopter.
I would think the major cost/hurdle is getting the Night and IFR sorted as a precursor to going for the ATPL assuming you already have the hours.
As I said I would just keep trucking on with your career path and worry about the ATPL when you need it not necessarily when you want it.

[CYHeli]

This is some of the best advice I have seen here;

As I said I would just keep trucking on with your career path and worry about the ATPL when you need it not necessarily when you want it.

In the past a number of pilots have obtained the ATPL simply because they can. 1500 hours and tick. It looks good on a resume, but it really doesn't add that much to their career unless they are going off-shore.

If you are off-shore as a co-pilot / first officer, you will be conducting MCC training within your companies.
CASA have indicated that these courses should tick the box as an MCC Course, so long as the operator holds a Part 142 approval.
Having spoken to some operators, I would be surprised if they did NOT become Part 142 approved.

As Mike has said, keep trucking along, look for opportunities and finally, smile and wave boys, smile and wave.

[haroldthehelicopter]

This is some of the best advice I have seen here;

As I said I would just keep trucking on with your career path and worry about the ATPL when you need it not necessarily when you want it.

In the past a number of pilots have obtained the ATPL simply because they can. 1500 hours and tick. It looks good on a resume, but it really doesn't add that much to their career unless they are going off-shore.

These sentiments are well and good for the junior CPL's or eternal "day VFR" pilots of the industry, but there would be a heap of both civil and military guys waiting in the EMS wings too in this space CY and Mike. Wouldn't be many states out there that don't have ATPL on their EMS contract minimas. Your resume in the EOI pile, (or in that back door email chain ), is not going to look good to any off-shore (Captain) or EMS operators unless it has ATPL on it. This stall within the regs is disgraceful, and I'd be pretty pissed if I were one of these stallees!! That said, we knew it was coming........

HtH

[bladepitch]

For those of us already established in the offshore stream, CY is correct and it automatically gets covered in the check and training process of proficiency checks and annual instrument renewals.
But those outside trying to crack it in a shrinking offshore market as a few of my friends are, The new rules were a momentary kick in the guts in their eyes. That being said, offshore companies will get you through if your successful during the interview process...

[FerrariFlyer]

It will be interesting to see if this delay will create much of a shortage of ATPL rated pilots, even if short term until the situation is rectified. Regardless, it is a very regrettable position for those caught in the 'stalled position'.

[bladepitch]

by the time the oil price recovers and exploration activity goes full tilt again plus considering all the factors already discussed the current downturn may be a blessing in disguise to protect the possible future shortage...

[FerrariFlyer]

I've also heard rumours that CASA are also looking at introducing a requirement for two crew for EMS operations. It's just that, a rumour, but if it's the case...

[haroldthehelicopter]

I've also heard rumours that CASA are also looking at introducing a requirement for two crew for EMS operations. It's just that, a rumour, but if it's the case...

Heard that too.... second source...... must be true!!

[FerrariFlyer]

I've also heard rumours that CASA are also looking at introducing a requirement for two crew for EMS operations. It's just that, a rumour, but if it's the case...

Heard that too.... second source...... must be true!!

Only need one more person to make it legislation then HtH!!!

Rumour becoming fact, this will make it quite interesting across the EMS industry across Australia and allow for some potentially very good opportunities for people to move into multi-engine roles beyond that of the offshore sector. Question is, what sort of experience and qualifications will be required for the role?

[bladepitch]

Considering the limitations of onshore wages due to contract margins ,how this is tackled will be very interesting indeed.

That's if the rumor is true of course..

[Yankee]

To answer the original question... my understanding is that exams do expire unless you've completed a block of exams within the allocated timeframe. In which case they're good forever.

[Twistgrip]

That is correct Yankee, it's still the case I believe.

Exams once completed in the timeframe are perpetual.

[Evil Twin]

Taken directly from the CASA site:-

Subject exams
The part-exams are commonly referred to as subject exams but essentially each subject exam is just a part-exam of the ATPL (aeroplane or helicopter) exam.

Candidates may choose to sit subject-part exams in any order they prefer, and in any number in a day, subject to the sessions available at an approved venue for that day.

A candidate passing a subject exam is awarded a temporary pass for that subject. When all seven subject exams have been passed within a window (see

Re-training period and window, the candidate is awarded a full ATPL exam credit (either for aeroplane or helicopter).

Notes: A pass in a subject exam may only be held as a temporary pass until the candidate successfully completes the set of seven subject exams in the window period described above.

If all the seven subject exams are not passed within the defined period, the temporary pass(es) for subject exam(s) will progressively become EXPIRED PASSES at the end of the window.

Therefore candidates are strongly advised not to attempt any subject exam until they have undertaken comprehensive and satisfactory aeronautical knowledge training, required by the respective aeronautical knowledge syllabus.

and

Multi-subject part exams – ‘Window’ definition
An examination, consisting of a number of subject-parts, is referred to as an exam ‘bundle’. All subject-parts within the bundle must be passed within a prescribed period of time, referred to as a ‘window’ in order to gain a theory credit for a particular licence. The three main ‘bundles’ that must be passed within a ‘window’ are:

the seven subject-parts for the awarding of either a CPL or an ATPL theory credit;
a bundle of subject-parts when converting from an aeroplane to a helicopter category, or vice versa; and
a bundle of subject-parts for pilots converting a foreign licence to an Australian licence.
CASR Part 61.225 requires that a person passes all parts of an examination within a period of 2 years.

Candidates who completed ALL subject-parts prior to 1st September 2013 are not affected as they have already gained the full theory credit for that particular ‘bundle’ of subject-parts.

Candidates who have completed some subject-parts, but have not a full theory credit or a complete ‘bundle’ on 1 September 2014, will find that any subject-parts passed on or before 31 August 2012 will have expired, as the three-year window changes to a two-year rolling window on 1 September 2014.

Candidates commencing a ‘bundle’ of subject-parts on or after 1st September 2014 should plan their studies and exams so that all subject-parts are completed within two years of their first pass.

If at the end of two years, a candidate has not passed all subjects within their bundle, then the status of a pass achieved two years prior to their latest pass will change to an EXPIRED PASS and must be passed again.

Once a full theory credit has been awarded for a completed ‘bundle’ of subject-parts completed within a window, then that credit is perpetual. Candidates should take particular care checking the dates of exams when applying for a licence or rating to ensure that all subject-parts required have been passed within one ‘window’ (3 years if the ‘bundle’ was completed prior to 01/09/2014 or 2 years if completed on or after 01/09/2014).


Therefore: You have 2 years to pass all of the ATPL exams, exams falling outside of the 2 year period i.e. your first exam is more than 2 years old before you sit the final exam, it will expire and need to be re-sat. Once you have passed all of the subjects you have a full pass and they will not expire.