Fiji accident video

[Skid Marks]

Video of yesterday's AS350 accident. Reports that all 7 on board OK thankfully
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-paci ... ard-escape

[Queestce]

I read the words wind gust in relation to this, but my mind screamed tourist related cyclic dilemma when I saw it...



Glad pilot and pax came away unscathed.

[zzodr]

Swashplate position on skid contact (top) and just before pitch forward (bottom)

[Birdy]

Im no tourist opperater, but i can see the need to keep excited fools out of the TR, but in gusty wind like that, wouldnt you have your nose into wind?
A gusting tail wind and a wall of trees on the nose kinda closes alot of outs if thing go legup.

[smiley]

I holidayed on Treasure Island a few years back. A very small and beautiful island much better accessed by boat. The pad is a concrete outcrop built on the sand on the NE edge of the island and is very exposed to prevailing wind. The landing area is not much bigger than the skid area of the squirrel. You can only land over water from the direction as shown in the video over water as there is a high bamboo fence, palm trees and resort buildings a few meters away.
As the crash video shows there is no real room for error except backwards off the pad into the sea or straight up - if you planned for it.

[Hello Pilots]

I. The landing area is not much bigger than the skid area of the squirrel.

if it's the pad in the video in question, I'd say that's a fairly decent sized pad and very accomodating for a machine that size.
I'm calling brilliant journalism on the wind gust scenario as the cause of accident. It's a no brainer that the pilot stuffed up.

[Birdy]

Well spotted zzodr, definalty a forward stick command there, for whatever reason.
A sudden gust up your coit on touch down wont make it pitch over like that.
Still, if he was lookn over the water, he would have had a much better chance of catching it.

[UnObvious]

Someone on the Heli-Ops facebook page had a reasonable guess at what might have happened:

Windy conditions, smooth touchdown on front of skids, more abrupt rocking back as rear of skids come down giving feeling of rotating off back of pad, forward cyclic and collective in response, high wind under forward tilted main disk and no way to recover in short distance to obstacles.

Probably didn't help having 6 pax. Can't imagine he had a whole lot of aft cyclic left. Hope he recovers and is back on the horse right away. Everyone makes mistakes, just glad that no-one got seriously hurt!

[Heli-Ops]

Someone I chatted with who has spent a lot of time flying in and out of that pad mentioned that the pad has a pretty decent slope backwards. When landing there with full load the helo has pretty forward c of g and after toes of the skids touch down the helo leans right back, in this case thoughts are the pilot might have thought he hadn't landed completely on the pad as it started tilting back and reaction was to pull up and push forward, and then along for the ride.

Glad everyone ok.

[Hircher]

Respect to anyone who flys in those conditions and creates "examples for a low hour pilot like me to learn from".
And respect to those on this forum who know better than to criticise or judge.

[Mag seal]

Respect to anyone who flys in [highlight=]those conditions[/highlight] and creates "examples for a low hour pilot like me to learn from".
And respect to those on this forum who know better than to criticise or judge.

What conditions?

[FerrariFlyer]

For some of us with 'a little experience' it would appear as though the conditions on the day were reasonably benign.

However, with strong gusty winds, an aircraft likely operated close to a forward COG limit and a range of other unknown variables (experience, time on type, land site local features, mechanical issues, training etc etc bla bla bla), to the untrained eye or a newcomer to the industry the conditions might be seen as challenging. The thing is none of us really know!

Regardless, we should be thankful that no one was seriously injured or worse still, killed. Our industry is not without risk and this is an example of that. Most of us, I am sure, would lend our support to the pilot and company concerned during what would be quite a harrowing time.

[Mallard]

Someone I chatted with who has spent a lot of time flying in and out of that pad mentioned that the pad has a pretty decent slope backwards. When landing there with full load the helo has pretty forward c of g and after toes of the skids touch down the helo leans right back, in this case thoughts are the pilot might have thought he hadn't landed completely on the pad as it started tilting back and reaction was to pull up and push forward, and then along for the ride.

Glad everyone ok.

+1 for this version of events. This is why you treat every take of and landing like a slope T/O and landing.

[TreeTrimmer]

https://www.facebook.com/ruy.flemming/v ... 629229257/

Looks a bit familiar!

[Evil Twin]

First things first, thankfully everyone is ok and nobody was seriously injured.

Looking at the video with the benefit of hindsight and a much different angle to that of the pilot on the day there appears to a number of factors that MAYhave influenced the final outcome, namely:-

1. Wind conditions not favouring the nose in landing on the pad.
2. The pad appears to slope back from the toes of the skids.
3. 7 on board promoting a nose low attitude.
4. A 'positive' landing causing a rock back on the skids exacerbated by the initial nose low attitude. Possibly causing a collective snatch to recover.
5. A rearward sloping pad would have promoted a forward cyclic position.
6. Potential gusts of wind coinciding with that snatched collective and forward cyclic and nowhere to go to create the perfect storm borne out by the video.

We know nothing about the PIC on the day so it would be churlish to make assumptions however, experience, currency, familiarity with that pad in those conditions may also have been contributing factors that helped the swiss cheese holes line up that day.

To the pilot on the day, hope you're ok dude and you can get back on the horse soon. At the very least you can be thankful that everyone walked away.

Have a happy New Year all. Safe skies

p.s. That latest video! Who the hell let the dog run around on or near the pad!!!??

[Birdy]

Is it just my paranoia, or do pilots with doors on become too insulated from outside conditions?
Tail wind rushing up a hill, nothn but bricks on the nose.

Nice save btw, after a stupid approach.

[NZHelo]

Is it just my paranoia, or do pilots with doors on become too insulated from outside conditions?
Tail wind rushing up a hill, nothn but bricks on the nose.

Nice save btw, after a stupid approach.

If you need doors off to enable you to evaluate flight conditions, you're doing it wrong

[Birdy]

I understand that NZ, but i rarely have a door on, so i was wundering...........

To put it a different way,
Every machine has a tail wind limit, which is alot lower than VNE, forward speed.
So, why wouldnt you always touch down with the wind on the nose?
You have so many more options with a headwind should things go bad.

Is it regulations ( keep the public away from the TR), lazyness or just ego?

[rtrhd]

https://www.facebook.com/HelicopterEnth ... 685904475/

similar scenario.... ? and reaction ?

[Capt Hollywood]

So, why wouldn't you always touch down with the wind on the nose?

Because that's not always an option. Neither the Fiji incident or this example look to have pads suitable for a touchdown facing in the other direction.