Choppair ordered to pay up

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Watchdog
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Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Watchdog » Sun Oct 9 2016, 10:16

See media article Zipper back in court

http://helihub.com/2016/10/07/court-ord ... -in-crash/
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havick
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby havick » Sun Oct 9 2016, 14:51

Wasn't the helicopter leased to Heliserv and operating under their AOC when the accident occurred?
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Yankee » Sun Oct 9 2016, 18:12

I disagree with this call... This is not a good precedent for helicopter operators. I see no good outcomes from this.
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JohnHopkins
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby JohnHopkins » Sun Oct 9 2016, 19:56

I suppose with that sort of payout she won't care that she's just ended her flying career.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Gonsky » Sun Oct 9 2016, 20:57

200k will not be much after costs that could easily be 50k+, also taxes on settlements will occur due to lost income component and also depends on the structure of the settlement.

End of the career is not going to be worth it, should have settled out of court. Once the lawyers are involved it is already over.

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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby UnObvious » Sun Oct 9 2016, 22:18

I just read the accident report again, thinking I'd missed something.

Seems like a pretty standard dynamic rollover incident, I don't see how they could pin that on the chief pilot.

From another article it says:

Judge Burchardt accepted Ms Bobridge’s version of events.

“It would seem to me that more probable than otherwise that in some fashion the right skid failed, gripped the matting and became, in some fashion, tangled with it and as power was applied this necessarily caused the dynamic rollover,” he concluded.

It looks like Zipper represented himself in court while the pilot had a lawyer. That's probably the reason this case went the way it went.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Biggles » Mon Oct 10 2016, 00:06

The lawyer representing the pilot i guess was rubbing his hands if Zipper was representing himself.

Either way, Zipper was probably in a no win situation. I haven't read any articles but it was going to cost him a mottza in lawyers fees too.
Don't know if her costs were also to be paid by Zipp so that adds to the pain. If he had of won & costs awarded against her, she may have declared bankrupt to avoid paying.

Sorry to any lawyers out there but this "no win no fee" advertised heavily stinks. Had a friend recently who went through a divorce & it cost her over $100k in legal fees and it didn't seem all that complex.

Only winners in a dispute : legal profession

Rant over........

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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Heliduck » Mon Oct 10 2016, 02:32

Lawyers & the law are like safety professionals & SMS's, they perpetuate their jobs by making it all far more complex than it needs to be.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby havick » Mon Oct 10 2016, 03:49

No dog in the fight, but I foresee an appeal if the magistrate is citing a failed or broken skid.
Last edited by havick on Mon Oct 10 2016, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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hand in pants
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby hand in pants » Mon Oct 10 2016, 06:58

After getting some actual facts on this thread, I have deleted my previous comment.

Terry
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Jamie
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Jamie » Mon Oct 10 2016, 06:59

Really??
I'm a little surprised by the response from other pilots on here about this decision.

He was trying to counter-sue a pilot for crashing a chopper, lost and everyone is saying it was a bad decision??
Imagine what the ramifications this precedent would have on the industry.

I personally don't want to be sued by my boss if I made a mistake and crashed accidentally. People make mistakes and a pilot should never be allowed to be successfully sued for anything other than a willful act. Why should I lose my house for making a mistake that is a very human thing to do. Getting potentially injured or worse and losing my career is a given but not to lose my house.

Besides, as far I read it, the payout was for underpayment of salary and unpaid wages that she was entitled too.

Have I missed something or am I the only one that sees this? I expect to get smashed, like everyone else who disagree does on this forum.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Gonsky » Mon Oct 10 2016, 08:05

If she crashed because she didn't do the preflight correctly then you have legal cause. Everyone makes mistakes yet there is a high % of dying in helicopter ones.

He indicated that a ballast bag was blocking controls, in the real world people have to be responsible for their actions. Unfortunately the way the world is going no one ever accepts fault anymore, if it was your helicopter what would you do?

The insurance company would be trying to get out of the payout and so your down a couple of mil, representing yourself is never a good idea unless the judge is your uncle :D

If you crash a car because you didn't check your brake fluid, there is cause for action.

My 2 cents not trying to bash anyone.

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Gregory
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby spcrewie » Mon Oct 10 2016, 08:13

Jamie,

I'm not going to smash you, just point out a few inaccuracies in your post.
The Pilot in question wasn't working for Choppair at the time of the crash. She was a former choppair employee that had resigned weeks earlier.
She was contracting for another Moorabbin based operator on the day of the accident and that operator had cross hired the 206L involved in the crash from Choppair.
She then sued Choppair for negligence and then included being "underpaid" in her claim.
Choppair the countersued in reaction to the claim against them and after losing a sponsorship deal from a major European Car company due to the press associated with the crash.
The pilot in question was flying with an unrestrained weight bag on the floor of the copilots side and the cyclic stub cover on that side not installed after removing the dual controls.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Jamie » Mon Oct 10 2016, 10:53

Spcrewie, did you actually read the court evidence and findings? I'm not sure of the inaccuracies you mention but I should point out a few things.

There were 20 claims made by the pilot (applicant) and they were all issues related to underpayment of wages / superannuation / annual leave and allowances. There were ZERO NEGLIGENCE CLAIMS made by the pilot and the majority of the money awarded was related to employment before the accident dating back to 2009. The main argument was which award the applicant actually came under, which was proven to be the Pilot's Award.

The respondent was using the negligence claim as an avenue to reducing the money that the applicant was clearly entitled too. This counter-claim was quickly dismissed when the evidence was presented. I fully understand the reason he went that way but don't agree with pilots being sued for an accident, especially when there is compulsory insurance covering for it. But I guess you can't get insurance for failing to pay staff correctly.

I suggest looking at the actual court findings before passing sentence. Although, it seems the experts on this forum are quite happy to set a lynch mob on this pilot without actually having any.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Watchdog » Mon Oct 10 2016, 10:54

fattony77
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby fattony77 » Tue Oct 11 2016, 04:51

All starting to make sense now......I always wondered why Choppair and more specifically Zipper would "rent" out his AOC to "Broome Helicopters" after they had they're AOC cancelled and also the CP stripped of his ability to act as CP. Its starting to sound like those two are two peas in a pod, Broome Helicopters still owing numerous pilots back wages and a couple of case's before the courts as we speak. When will the industry be rid of these types of operators who repetitively and consistently rip off their pilots.....surely the time has come when enough is enough. If you cant afford to pay what is legally the bare minimum, then maybe its time you realise owning and operating an aviation business is not for you! And before anyone says its tough to do it these days with all the CASA relations etc etc, just look around, as there are plenty of operators doing it by the book and paying their pilots what they deserve....my two cents!!
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Ivor » Mon Oct 24 2016, 12:24

Spcrewie and Havik,

Not sure where you're getting your ill informed, misguided information from.

The pilot was not contracting to any "other" Moorabbin operator at the time, she was there because she was nominated to fly that aircraft on the day by her employer and operator of that helicopter - Zipper.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle.
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby Ivor » Mon Oct 24 2016, 12:40

P.S. Well said Fattony!
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havick
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Re: Choppair ordered to pay up

Postby havick » Tue Oct 25 2016, 01:33

Ivor wrote:Spcrewie and Havik,

Not sure where you're getting your ill informed, misguided information from.

The pilot was not contracting to any "other" Moorabbin operator at the time, she was there because she was nominated to fly that aircraft on the day by her employer and operator of that helicopter - Zipper.

When you little scamps get together you're worse than a sewing circle.


Whatever, perhaps if you read my post, did you not see that it was a question and not a statement?
"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel."

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