Blackhawk For Fire Ops

What have you heard?
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Twistgrip
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Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Twistgrip » Wed Dec 7 2016, 00:44

"You can watch things happen, you can make things happen or you can wonder what happened!!"
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AgRattler
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby AgRattler » Wed Dec 7 2016, 03:13

What a weapon.
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Gonsky » Wed Dec 7 2016, 08:55

No chance :D

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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Twistgrip » Thu Dec 8 2016, 13:19

No chance


Would Love to hear your thoughts Gregory. :D
Operators have been using the S70 for 15 odd years in the states very successfully fire fighting... I think its a "Good chance" they will succeed, its proven. click on link below.
No UAV's on fires in the heat of the battle Gregory, only helicopters and pilots, and it will go on for the foreseeable future!. pop;


http://www.firehawkhelicopters.com
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havick
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby havick » Thu Dec 8 2016, 20:08

They're an absolute weapon with a tank on them.

Hopefully they can get tank vne close to aircraft vne or at least a high cruise speed.
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Gonsky » Thu Dec 8 2016, 20:11

Nothing to do with drones, it is all down to $$.

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Gregory
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby stratford » Thu Dec 8 2016, 22:23

They arrive late December.
Capt Slong
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Capt Slong » Sat Dec 10 2016, 10:55

Is it a S61 killer??? Watch this space
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Firefish » Wed Dec 14 2016, 23:24

They might do a bit of CWN work but they're restricted category so unless NAFC change the rules they won't get a contract.
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby CYHeli » Thu Dec 15 2016, 00:25

There are some ex-antarctic S76's getting around, why haven't they been used for fire fighting?
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Friendly Black Dog » Thu Dec 15 2016, 01:17

Kapton wiring I think. Could be wrong
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Capt Slong » Thu Dec 15 2016, 04:55

Whats would a 76 be good for on the fire ground??

Can't see out of it, can't land out in the bush, can't put a tank or long line and bucket on it.

But I guess its fast :idea:
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Twistgrip » Thu Dec 15 2016, 05:09

Whats would a 76 be good for on the fire ground??


For following this around :D
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Firefish » Thu Dec 15 2016, 06:31

CYHeli wrote:There are some ex-antarctic S76's getting around, why haven't they been used for fire fighting?


A B3 will lift about the same far cheaper.
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Gonsky » Thu Dec 15 2016, 10:45

20 x 500 litre UAV = $4,000,000 actual $ cost per unit will be lower yet using worst case numbers.

~3 sorties per airframe per hour = 60 x 500 litre = 30,000 litre per hour or basically a wall of water.........................continuously.

30,000 x 24 hours = 720,000 litre per day. Every day no stops no breaks, replies/comments will be based on loss of accuracy yet volume will compensate.

In most instances probability of superior accuracy has been shown with a combination of WAAS / CORS and differential GPS. Additionally GPS using RTK is able to achieve centimetre accuracy and can be combined with GSM positioning for pinpoint positioning.

Personnel x 10, 4 UAV pilots and 6 ground crew rotating.

Lose a UAV just get another one. No manned airframes needed no loss of life and no shared airspace.

If required fixed wing multi-spectral UAV spotter with 12 hour duration.

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Gregory
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Capt Slong » Thu Dec 15 2016, 12:15

So your saying spend $80 million to put out 30,000 litres of water per/hr in one spot ??
Why note lease an Aircrane which are worth perhaps $20 million each to buy which can put down 7,500 litres per load averaging 10 loads per/hr = 75,000 litres then spend the extra $60 million you have saved your self on other mission specific aircraft which can be positioned around the country.

I think you will find your money will be better spent using this method.

$$$ per litre
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Gonsky » Thu Dec 15 2016, 21:48

How is it 80 mil??????

20 x 500 litre UAV = $4,000,000 or 200k each, and unit cost will go lower.

4 mil for 20 airframes in total, not each. So 20 airframes for less than one full scale.

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Gregory
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Mag seal » Thu Dec 15 2016, 22:07

Have you got a link to these UAVs working a live fire and putting this volume out continuously over a 24 hour period?
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Beaver » Fri Dec 16 2016, 01:30

A UAV that can carry 1/2 a tonne for $200000?? That's more than a jet box can carry?? Where are these UAVs ??
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Re: Blackhawk For Fire Ops

Postby Evil Twin » Fri Dec 16 2016, 05:09

Darkstar1966, I hope you don't mind me saying so but, I think there is a very strong possibility that you are working the wrong audience.

There are a number of pilots here whom have an interest in drone's both personally and professionally. However, convincing even them and the remainder that a drone can achieve better results than a human pilot with tried and tested equipment is a tall order. A significant portion of these professionals have spent a good portion of their careers putting out fires with helicopters. Add in the judgement calls that are made by the moment and I'm wondering if a swarm of drones could manage what a human/helicopter combination can achieve. Can the drone pilot make that snap descision to drop a couple of thousand litres of water somewhere different at the last moment as they spotted someone in need out of the corner of their eye. I don't believe so as the SA isn't there.

I have yet to hear of a UAV that is capable of carrying 500kg of water that could be dropped on a fire. I am also aware that just because I haven't heard doesn't mean the technology doesn't exist but, if what you propose is out there in the marketplace I suspect more of us would have heard about it by now. The number you quote above, though impressive don't really stack up. The 24 hr every day no stops no breaks endurance isn't achievable at this point unless you are talking about solar power and that won't get you airborne with a 500kg payload, especially in the dark.

Further any company that brings the equipment you speak of to market is going to want money, and lots of it to get a return on their investment. You can bet your pay cheque that it won't be cheaper than it is now.

It's an interesting proposition and will no doubt develop with time. Right now though, I expect the technology is not mature enough to beat the man/helicopter and it'll be a long time before it's cheaper and equally as successful.

And the Firehawk looks cool, gis a go... 8)

Cheers
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