Emergency landing in Royal National Park

What have you heard?
kiwiflyer
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby kiwiflyer » Thu Dec 22 2016, 09:24

I know the pilot personally, he's a very experienced pilot with many thousands of hrs and a top bloke as well.
Now I haven't talked to him about this job but anyone who has done any amount of longlining knows you can have days where the job didn't go as well as you would have liked, if you disagree then you haven't done much in my opinion.
I have heard the story's of guys who never have anything go wrong, usually from the guys themselves actually and when it's cut and dried they usually have the most cock ups.
If you think I'm sticking up for the pilot...I am!!!!.
Put channel 7 over all the critics on this post while they are flying and Im sure this video in question wouldn't even get a mention as there would be more to talk about than taking a few minutes to get a fragile load onto a truck deck.
Pretty easy for all the would be's if I could be's to sit back a criticise when in reality they haven't any idea what they are talking about as they weren't there.
Birdy
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Birdy » Thu Dec 22 2016, 09:42

Armchairs.
You only have to look at how much the scrub is moveing, and that theres no sign of downwash to know the machine on top of the string wasnt in happy air.
The trailer was parked xwind, so holding a dead aircraft steady in gusty wind on the end of a long string is a timeing thing.

I recon he did well, considering the crew.
Team Player
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Team Player » Thu Dec 22 2016, 23:08

Whether the pilot is a good man on the stick is irrelevant in this case. He has been placed on national TV looking like a goose to those of us in the industry, probably due to reasons out of his control.
This, from an outsiders point of view, looks more like a case of the 5 P’s: Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance.
The rigging is horrendous. Basic riggers would know that 3, preferably 4 guide ropes was required for this job.
Were there actually any riggers onsite? If so, sack them!!
Was a proper briefing carried out? Where’s the comms bloke and controller on the ground? Perhaps he was the one running around like a tosser.
How could there have been multiple people allowed get under a dangerous load like that?
I would have expected any of our pilots to not commit and the load to be placed in a safe place until safety conditions improved.
Perhaps/probable Organisational factors at play here – accident investigators will understand that quote!!
This video will become a “how not to do a lift job” classic at Worksafe/Workcover.
Heliduck
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Heliduck » Fri Dec 23 2016, 02:47

kiwiflyer wrote:Now I haven't talked to him about this job but anyone who has done any amount of longlining knows you can have days where the job didn't go as well as you would have liked, if you disagree then you haven't done much in my opinion.
Put channel 7 over all the critics on this post while they are flying and Im sure this video in question wouldn't even get a mention as there would be more to talk about than taking a few minutes to get a fragile load onto a truck deck.


Bang on kiwiflyer, I've had more than 1 load that I wouldn't have wanted a camera on me! My criticism is of the ground crew man on the truck, I reckon the pilot would have done just fine if he hadn't been there. If the ground crew was briefed & didn't follow the briefing I'm sure the pilot would feel vindicated.
"Plan twice...Fly once"
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bladepitch
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby bladepitch » Sat Dec 24 2016, 01:03

Well here we are at the end of 2016 and still monday morn quarterbacks are hacking on a fellow pilot.. Not just on here but on other social media outlets..

WTF is wrong with fellow pilots.. The machine was removed from the scrub and put on a trailer. Just because it didnt look how YOU wanted..or reckon it should look. So fuxking what.. He will analize his own performance and thats all that counts..

Leave him alone....or better yet. Use your real name..
Beaver
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Beaver » Sat Dec 24 2016, 02:48

Hearing you Bladepitch. Arm chair experts , with thousands of hours of long lining without every getting a load out of shape. You guys are just amazing!!!! To the pilot , Merry Christmas mate , you are truly one of the nicest gents in the industry who never has a bad word to say about anyone.
A bloke that always has plenty of work with several companies, because he's not an A- hole throwing daggers under a pseudonym!
Gas Producer
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Gas Producer » Sat Dec 24 2016, 08:12

Both you, Beaver, and Bladepitch are gentlemen. The industry could do with more of both of you.

I agree with the sentiments of both of you.

Merry Xmas to you both.
Zeus1980
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Zeus1980 » Tue Dec 27 2016, 05:48

Ok I will have the balls and admit it and say that when I first saw the video I thought 'Wow what a rough job the aircraft would probably have got more damage from that than the emergency itself", but didn't publicly say it until now.

However as a junior pilot reading all the 'senior hour'/experienced pilots on here defending this job I went back and watched the video again to see it with all the point of views.

With the wind, news cameras, a rescue chopper, position of truck, lack of comms and lack of decent ground crew, etc, I can now understand how a relatively straight forward job turned into what looked like a farce (outside looking in).

It is a good lesson especially to us junior pilots even the most experience pilots can have a off day and also not to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts.
ozloadie
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby ozloadie » Wed Dec 28 2016, 02:27

No need to discuss personalities, the footage shows what can be improved markedly.

There appears to be a number of major falures in planning and co-ordination after a successful external load transit, and it appears they are all located at the reception area for the load.

One option for the pilot might have been to land the load and then himself in one of the adjacent clearings, shut down and sort out the truck position, ground party operation and add some control measures to the load.

Obviously we don't know what corporate or other demons might have obscured that option, but it is one that any and every pilot has the unassailable right to do, not just persist with what is presented.

All of the problems which have been indicated should have been reduced or removed if the lift was planned and co-ordinated prior to the lift. (what was the rush?)

They are all valid, practical and professional operational considerations.

Anyone who crews ie aircrew and groundcrew, is there to reduce the pilots workload so the pilot can fly the aircraft at the best standard he can offer. The task and relevance of these crews input to the operation is not a lesser priority and any one of them failing totally can kill an aircraft.

The reception of that external load was in no way controlled, a lot of people on the ground put themselves in hazardous positions and the communications were not!

Something as simple as a radio and a smoke indicator or streamer on the ground would have been an immense aid to the pilot (the ground wind is an undeniable influence in any of these ops).

I've done these type of operations on NVG's as well, and in remote areas as well, and it's the little things that can bring it all undone.

Anything that is done with an aircraft has to be done with the same standard as the flying, and the groundcrew in this case appeared to be unqualified or just plain cowboys (who was in charge).
No room for short cuts and cowboys.

I thought the pilots handling was good, a "boat hull" is never easy to hold still in windy conditions, but he didn't get much help.

Planning and briefing is time well spent, never wasted!

As was mentioned it would make an excellent training aid for both air and ground crews because it's real, and obvious.

Steve
Keep it flying, don't quit!
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Thunderbird_1
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Re: Emergency landing in Royal National Park

Postby Thunderbird_1 » Sun Apr 30 2017, 23:56

For those interested, the final report has just been released by ATSB:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/inv ... -2016-172/

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