Schools in states

[azza1234]

I think it may be one of those photo taking opportunities - like BoatPix etc.

Those guys do fly alot - not surprising if you're covering their costs to fly tho!

Azza - if you're going to the States, why not go the Instructor route? That's how your hours are normally built... what visa are you getting?

Hey mate,
I already have my CPL(H) and will get instructor rating asap. Getting married to yank so visa wont be a problem.
Thanks for reply!

[Yakking]

I think it’s sad that you are going over to the states to get a Helicopter licence!
We have equally if not the best training here in Australia.

Not to be rude or confrontational, What do you judge this on? If this is the case why don't the majority of international students come to Austraila to learn to fly? It seems that people from all over the world go to the USA to train becasue of the opportunities it offers before they return to their respective countries.

The first thing most people are going to ask you when you apply for a job as a low hour pilot is where did you do your licene and if they know the school they may contact the CFI or an instructor mate of there's for a reference.

When returning from your time in the US you should expect to have somewhere around 1000hrs, I think this excludes you from the "low hour job".

I agree you with you both (Ian and Les) in principle. We should support the industry that we want to work in. I however chose the US option and it has never hindered my career in Austraila (maybe I was just lucky???). If I was to start training now, I'd do it in Australia. There are more opportunities here than in the US at the moment. But when I did my training it was booming in the US and I would of been crazy not to go over there.

Hey... just my two cents.

Yak.

[i4iq]

azza1234

If you go the Instructor route, you'll need 200 hrs - forget which FAR it is... a few other regs apply but it's been a while since I was last there!

I believe the number of hours required has to do with the insurance provider. Robinson has his own and min hours apply but its cheaper premiums.

[Ian Batton]

Not to be rude or confrontational, What do you judge this on?

the check flights that i have done with pilots that have trained over seas.

If this is the case why don't the majority of international students come to Australia to learn to fly?

the smart ones do!

It seems that people from all over the world go to the USA to train because of the opportunities it offers before they return to their respective countries.

yes to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
and then to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
once again to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
not sure if you get it, to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
Starting to sink in yet, to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
O i am getting the picture now, to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,
Yep i understand, to be taught by a helicopter pilot that has just got their licence! so then they can get there instructors rating and teach new pilots,

Now i don't hide behind a user name and am just poking a little fun at you there,

this argument could go on forever, but i will have little trouble getting support from Aussies,

When returning from your time in the US you should expect to have somewhere around 1000hrs, I think this excludes you from the "low hour job".

Not to sure about this statement either, 1000 is still low hours, and our best companies are looking for 2000 for a start and then you are flying the low hour jobs that they have, thinking that you would have 500 hrs of instructing time not touching a control out of your 1000.

[Yankee]

Just Curious AZZA1234,

I'M GUESSING you already have $80,000.00 to pay for your school over here in the US... or maybe your new bride is going to pay for your training over here while paying for all of your other living expenses... and for the wedding???

So, you're marrying a Yankee girl huh??? (I could say a few comments about that, personally I think you're crazy, especially with all the lovely girls there in OZ).

My guess is no, you're strapped for cash based on your comments, and if you really did have that kind of money and were determined to get your training in the US there is really only one choice and I'm not going to mention it.

So, how do you plan to finance your training in the US? did you know that Helicopter flight schools are struggling to stay open over here? There is no financing available anymore to train as a helicopter pilot.

Without students once you do get your CFI what are you going to do then???

There are exceptional CFI/CFII's over here in the US with 1500 hours who cannot find a job outside instructing and the couple I know are making about $200 a week.

Sounds like you've made up your mind to me, good for you. Just make sure you have a backup plan.

AND FYI, since you're getting married to a Yank and moving over here did you know it can take 10 months to a year (after you get married) just to get all the paper work through for a work permit??? and do you have the $2k to file all the paper work?

Best of luck, hope she's worth it.

["The Yank"]

Azza,

I don't know of any schools in the DC area, but I used to work for Boatpix (aka Helicopter Academy). Boatpix basically takes pics of boats from R22s and tries to sell them to the boat owner.

It was great for a young pilot like myself. We flew our arses off in many different areas of the U.S. I flew the coastline from Galveston, TX, around Florida and up the eastern seaboard to Canada. I spent summers in Detroit (not very memorable!) and Newport, RI. I spent winters in Ft Lauderdale, FL. I flew cross country from Wyoming to Detroit on a ferry flight. I even made a handful of trips to the Bahamas. I ended up flying 1,300 hours in my last year at Boatpix.

That was a pretty extreme case, but back when I worked there we had a lot of leeway and flew from sunrise to sunset. The owner essentially said, "Here is a helicopter. Now go shoot some boats."

The training started when I got my CFI along with a fellow coworker and we convinced Tom, the owner, to let us bring in students. The convincing was through dollar signs - telling him how much money he could make. We were just trying to figure out how to fly more. Boaters were usually out only on the weekends, but if we could instruct, we could fly all week long.

Tom was convinced, brought in students and basically said to me and the other CFI, "You guys handle the training." Once again we had a lot of leeway. There were no hour restrictions. We did maneuvers as many times as we wanted. We followed the regulations for training, but yes we were green as hell. What we lacked in experience, we made up with repetition. Our students back then flew a lot and have all progressed into "career" jobs now in EMS (including myself).

We flew the boats on the weekends or busy weekdays. The other times we flew standard maneuvers at the airport. If it was foggy at the airport and we couldn't get out, we did hovering practice. And yes, the students came out with us to fly the boats. Grey area here, but the students were never paid for the commercial work they were doing so we were able to get around the regs. It's different in OZ I know. The students never complained. It was a great experience.

There are some that would say it’s too dangerous to take students out on such a mission. Perhaps it was. I can only say that I was pretty extensive on my training to fly the boats and had very specific rules and techniques to follow. At the time, I never felt unsafe or felt like I was putting anyone in an unsafe situation. However, now that I’m a little older and wiser, I might do it differently. Maybe not.

Tom eventually created Helicopter Academy so he could split the boat operation from the training. I’m not sure how he has it organized now. When I was there you paid for your training and when you got to a certain level you were hired as a commercial pilot. It sure beat flying patterns at an airport with a flight school!

Anyway, a little history behind the company. I better cut it off. I think I just wrote a book here. If you’re thinking about Helicopter Academy, talk to some pilots that have been there recently or are still there. I’m sure it has changed a lot since I was there. I would imagine there are now restrictions on the number of hours per student!

Cheers,

The Yank

[Yakking]

Now Ian, what exactly was your point

Now i don't hide behind a user name and am just poking a little fun at you there

Nor do I. I don't use my real name, but I've said where I work on this forum. I'm not rude on this site, I would have this exact same conversation to your face. You have a valid point, I'm just trying to offer another perspective.

When returning from your time in the US you should expect to have somewhere around 1000hrs, I think this excludes you from the "low hour job".

I still stick by this. I'm not saying returning pilots are 'high time'. I'm simply saying that they are not competing with the 105/125hrs pilots for the entry level jobs.

Yak.

[Ian Batton]

Now Ian, what exactly was your point

I attempted to answer your questions.

And when i said i did not hide behind a user name i did not infer you (remembering that many others read this stuff and will be in my face fast) i was having some fun or having a go at instructors/instructing in the USA, and it could be well taking the wrong way, I'm know that there are many very experienced instructors in the US, and a fight over the Internet don't interest me much. its the idea of training in the USA and being taught by low hours pilots, and saying that its good because its cheaper or easer to get work, it don't add up to me, your first job in Australia has never been easer over the past 3 to 4 years, and to those who haven't got a job and think thats not true, well it is, not everyone who trains in/at anything get were they want to go.

Now this is a bit hard to follow with the dates being all over the place but you and me have got it.

[Yakking]

Now Ian, what exactly was your point

Sorry, this was a poor attempt at humour (re repetitiveness or your post to emphasise your point).
Thank you for answering. I’m not trying to pick any fights here, just having a discussion.

Good luck with your flying. I’ll introduce myself next time you contract for the company I work for (which you do from time to time I believe).
Yak.

[Ian Batton]

No worries, i Guess we'll have a YaK face to face, more bad humour!!!!! but you will have the advantage if we do meet, and don't mention this because i will not remember!

[azza1234]

Gday,
Bout to move to the states and was looking for a quality training school in the DC area. Only decent one I could find was the Helicopter Academy.
Any body heard anything about this school? They have about 20 all over the country.
They also offer a "time-building" program where you pay $150 an hr(R22) for 100 hrs to get you up to the 300TT where you can be insured and then offered a job with the company. Almost sounds to good to be true.
Any information would be much appreciated,
Cheers,
Aaron

[havick]

azza, I don't see any point in shelling out the $150/hr for time building if they don't offer you a job in writing first. Sounds like a money making exercise to me. Also ask them why are they telling you that you have to have 150hrs in order to be insured when you will already have been taking the aircraft solo in order to gain you licence in the first place? It just doesn't add up to me..

[dickdastardly]

The only thing that springs to mind is training insurance rate vs commercial working rate. It wouldnt surprise me if during that hour building package you go out and do jobs for the company, so theyre double dipping really and skipping out paying a pilot to boot. Might not be the case though.

Also dont hand your money over upfront, never know what might happen to the company next week..

[BenThomas]

They also offer a "time-building" program where you pay $150 an hr(R22)

Gosh I hope that this time building program is'nt one of those pay to work programs. You know the ones paying to fly news choppers or photo opps ect. Whenever I hear rates like that I become very skeptical.

Ben

[flynkiwi]

Theres an old saying "if its sounds too good to be true..........)

[i4iq]

I think it may be one of those photo taking opportunities - like BoatPix etc.

Those guys do fly alot - not surprising if you're covering their costs to fly tho!

Azza - if you're going to the States, why not go the Instructor route? That's how your hours are normally built... what visa are you getting?

[Ian Batton]

I think it’s sad that you are going over to the states to get a Helicopter licence!
We have equally if not the best training here in Australia.

During your training you will meet 4 to 10 other pilots doing theirs, you will work with most of them over the following years and what a great way to build your repour with other OZZI pilots. Then there’s the part that you are investing in the industry that you want to work in, if you want to work in the USA for good! Then go for it, but if you really want to work in Australia then you are miles better off training here.
You don’t see a lot of jobs advertised, compared to what really happens out there, that’s because most of the work in R44 to AS350 in Australia is from word of mouth, and you need to start that happening for you at the start of your licence.

No one I take on has any more than 110 or so hours, as with most of the jobs over here, you don’t need to spend even more money buying extra hours, or sling endorsements and other things.

No I don’t work for a flying School. I just try to support MY/Our industry right here in Australia.

Good luck with it.

[Les Norton]

I think you nailed it Ian, we need to support our own industry here in Aust. And I think their is alot of advantages doing your licence in Aust if you are planning to work here. The first thing most people are going to ask you when you apply for a job as a low hour pilot is where did you do your licene and if they know the school they may contact the CFI or an instructor mate of there's for a reference. Like it or not it is still the best way to find out how someone flys and what sort of person they are. A CV will only get your phone number in the door, the rest is up to you and your references

By the looks of things the industry might be slowly turning around and hopefully more work will start opening up for new pilots in the next few months. The oil and gas offshore work is still going ahead and they are starting to hire again. By the looks of things we are going to have a long fire season, and there has been a few overseas jobs pop up lately. So hopefully as people move up into more experenced rolls it will leave an opening for new pilots to enter the industry.

Just my 2 cents worth