Australian conversion to UK/European CPL(H)

[QMB]

Hi All,

I was looking to gather some info on transferring an Australian CPL (H) to a UK or European licence. I have full working rights etc and at present will only have met CASA mins as a comercial pilot. Also, am I pushing sh*t up hill thinking I can get work there as a very low hour pilot? Or do opportunities exist? I am not restricted to where I can live in the EU and will consider all options with locations and can anyone shed light on working in Africa or Middle East? I have travelled to both and have rather enjoyed them as a travel destination. I appreciate all feedback neg or pos.

Thanks

[Torquetime]

Hi QMB, I am looking into this myself being an EU passport holder, although not as far advanced as you with training. This is a great forum and we are sure to receive some current responses from learned slappers in the know. A few contributions I have read so far are unfortunately years old and we all know how quickly regulations can change so the question is what is the status as per September 2013? Cheers, TT.

[ChicoCheco]

both of you are bit silly, in my view. I know it ain't all roses and lullabies in Australia regarding first jobs as newbie, but you're looking at spending LOTS more time, money and effort for little to no flying jobs, if lucky.

In the UK and Scandinavia, 'starter jobs' tend to be bit of charter if lucky, likely as FI already, which is often/mostly only part time job weekends at majority of schools that want unrestricted (similar to out of supervision, but 100hrs as FI and solo signoffs) instructors. The other 'route' is spending more than your whole commercial in Australia, for European twin heli IR to be able to apply and have a chance to get copilot job offshore. Yes. SHEDloads of cash to burn without guarantee, but no 750/800hrs TT and 500 PIC like I've seen advertised in Oz for offshore copiloting. The difference is the money spent on 'speculative' 'MECIR' helicopters.

Although the new Part 61 will change soon, in Europe, EASA FCL has 250hrs heli/100hrs PIC to START 30hr FI course.. Coming from Australia, the R22 rates won't be so silly expensive for you, but they are still, compared to USA. Having FI rating isn't easy ticket to fulltime salaried job like in Australia, either.

What do I know? I had job offer in Europe, but decided not to waste cash/get stuck there.
'In touch' with various English speaking and EASA system countries, FAA rated instructor, about to head 'back' to Australia and do CPL/FI conversion, with pretty much 500hrs/200 as FI. I lived in the UK and instructed enough Europeans and know people to have good idea and it ain't rosy. Right now, know 500 and 700-800h guys without Euro IR(H) without jobs with CPL or CPL theory (quick CPL conversion easy).

Mind you, without airplane PIC time, you need 185hrs helicopter (of which 50 solo) for CPL licence issue. Which qualifies you for neither offshore jobs (been good hiring season this year for few reasons, will be probably less to nothing next year), nor to pick up some meagr instructing hours/jobs, where you pretty much need 280hrs to be able to instruct, most of which will be from your pocket.

But yeah, come to UK. I can't stand living there, but coming from Australia, at least you won't bitch about cost of living, just awful weather year round.

[QMB]

Chico,

Thanks for the reply, just not to sure what you are trying to say. Is there a very small market for low hour pilots? I understand off-shore jobs anywhere are hours + experience and some good luck, but really is it that hard for low hours pilots to get a charter job wether in the UK or down in Spain etc?

[ChicoCheco]

offshore jobs in the UK and 'North Sea users', can be LOW TIME and HIGH AMOUNT OF CASH. I mean silly huge.
Casual VFR jobs hard to come by. Instructing not starter job normally either, although less 'hours' obstacle after commercial in Europe.

again, 185hrs to get heli CPL. Money you spend on your 100hr CPL in OZ and more, just for heli twin instrument go be employable if looking for offshore jobs. Instructing, including hte course, EXTRA 100HRS HELICOPTER incl FI course to be able to get job and often they don't want restricted/supervised for part time weekend job. Few big schools are exceptions of their grads.

VFR jobs in Spain? You have 1000hr FIs waiting for multicrew gigs, LOCALS. One of the schools folded not so long ago.
Yes, I'[m told by friend doing seasonal fires, that with 300-400hrs and Euro CPL I could get copilot job on fires in Spain, but that'd be for fluent Spanish speaker (I am, not sure if YOU). Again, he can't make living doing 2-3 months fire season in Spain and scrapes for hours/cash doing some casual instructing job in the UK rest of year.

If you have some valuable larger twin rating and multicrew/multieng time, yes, doable. But it's all stuff I can't responsibly tell you you'd be fine getting a job. Well, if I were selfish, I'd welcome you to Europe, since I'm going to Australia, but I'm not competing for 100hrs CPL grad jobs once there anyway. Just letting you know.

Got spare 100k AUD and adventureous mind? Go ahead, try your luck getting offshore job there since you got EU passport. I got some of those, too. Like 3 of them. I gave you an example. I know of plenty 500-1000hr bods without jobs, no heli IR(H) in Europe. First or second hand 'contacts'. So you're goinna go like a lamb for slaughter, with your 'can-do' attitude, but not enough cash cash, hours or ratings.

[Mag seal]

QMB,

I think he is saying that since you only have the bare CPL (105 hours) you stand little chance of finding work. You need 250 hours to start training to become an Instructor. To break into the offshore industry they require you to have a Multi Engine Instrument rating which would cost around $50000. So either way you are either going to have to hour build another 150 hours to get to the FI course and then have the funds to pay for the 30 hours of training involved to get the rating or pay for the Instrument rating and take your chances that way.

Before you find work you will need the licence which requires you to Sit the EASA exams (all of them), pass the class 1 medical, do any training they think you need and will require due it not being covered in the CASA licence. (night, Basic instrument awareness) and then pass the flight test.

There are jobs in the UK. Bond are looking for Onshore and offshore pilots now. Bristow and Scotia (CHC) are looking for Offshore pilots

[Oogle]

Also, add to that:

9 CPL(H) exams plus flying training with a school prior to going for a flight test. They do not recognise ANY Australian qualifications. 13 exams if you want to go for ATPL(H) then the instrument rating (IR) training.

I couldn't understand alot of what Chico was saying but the one thing I agree with is time and $$$ to convert to EASA CPL.

[QMB]

Thanks guy, good to get some insight into opportunities. So in reality I need an instructor rating with about 500hrs and/or IREX with multi for any look in?

Might be pushing my luck here, do opportunities exist in the UAE, North Africa and/or North America? I plan on working in Australia but at some stage need to gradually head towards the partners homeland being the UK.

Thanks in advance

[KNOW NUFFEN]

QMB , continental Europe is currently in a recession. What that means is that employers pay the minimums and can chose the very best from a very long line of experienced and local people.Work can be erratic with no certainty. Maybe the devil you know????? KN

[Mag seal]

Know Knuffen, would you like to share the pay scales for pilots working in the EU? You mention they are paying the minimum due to lots of pilots looking for work, I've been told they pay quite well over there.

[ChicoCheco]

thanks for cutting down on the word count and making it more plain, ehrm, English. Bit of Beatnik style it was plus I missed few words or had letters swapped around. This slow laptop is killin me.
but yes. 50k AUD is actually 30k GBP give or take midmarket rate. People play 45-50k EUR esy for ME IR(H) from scratch, with minimum time in actual a/c as allowed in the regs. So I was making it too 'simple' regarding huge financial burden.

Yes, this year's been good for hiring, but who can tell after Xmas it'd be as it could be. Yes, some operators also require 500TT heli and some of it possibly twin/mulitcrew, due to some OGP compliant rules. If you want to move to UK and get job without this ridiculous twin IR, get some decent utility time and get job with PDG. Instructing often isn't fulltime unlike in Australia, so unless you have other source of income, it may not be viable as main/only job. Not as bad as USA in terms of hourly rates, but still..

[QMB]

Thanks again Chicco.

[ChicoCheco]

entry copilot job North sea flying to rigs, I'm told about 50k GBP pa gross. Mind you, higher taxes and NICs in the UK than some countries.

[Yakking]

Job Description

First Officers- EBU00468

Description

Bristow Norway is recruiting for first officers due to increased activity at Sola.

Qualifications

•Valid JAR/FLC helicopter license: CPL-H
•Valid instrument rating for helicopter: IR/H
•ATPL theory
•800 flight hours

Pilot selection planned for week 46: 9th - 14th November 2013.

Please contact Flight Operations Manager Jim Urianstad if further information is required.

Job: Pilots
Primary Location: Europe, Middle East-Norway-Stavanger
Schedule: Full-time
Number of Openings: 5
Posting Date: Sep 17, 2013
Unposting Date: Oct 7, 2013

http://app01.bristowgroup.com/careers/positions.php

[QMB]

Yakking,

Thanks that puts ball park numbers in place, but it doesn't say anything about turbine/twin so I assume it's not a factor.

Chicco,
I was talking to a family friend in the UK who has been working in the States his whole commercial career who has just moved back to the UK to work, all your info was on track and much appreciated. He seem to think Co-pilot jobs in the North Sea where up near 75k GBP. So if you we're to get that seat I assume it would be a very good career.

Thanks again all