Question, Flights over water

[kev kavanna]

Gday Team,
Stuck on this one any advice greatly appreciated
Have a question in regards to operations, Can i operate passenger carrying charter flights from Marine platform that's 200m from shore with a jetty attached in a single engine helicopter without floats ?

Air law,
Flights over water
In the course of departing from or landing at an aerodrome in accordance with a normal navigational procedure for departing from or landing at that aerodrome
Aircraft engaged in private, airwork or charter operations, and which are normally prohibited by CAR 258 from over-water flights because of their inability to reach land in the event of engine failure, may fly over water subject to compliance with the following conditions.
These conditions are additional to the requirements for flight over land (AIP ENR 1.1
helicopters may use a fixed platform or a vessel suitable for an emergency landing
each occupant of the aircraft must wear a life jacket during the flight over water unless exempted from doing so under the terms of CAO 20.11 para 5.1.7 to 5.1.9

[bl@ckers]

Interesting question, 200m is well within autorotative distance from land so I would have thought so if you are landing or departing at a site in accordance with a normal navigation procedure. However, from a risk management point of view floats is a good option!

You can only operate beyond autorotative distance from land in a single engine helicopter if you have emergency floats.

Reference CAO 20.11, paragraph 5.3.1

[Helicoil]

If the approach or departure path is such that an engine failure occuring at any stage would mean the helicopter had no option other than to land on the water, then floats would be required for passenger carrying charter.

I would hope that the jetty mentioned in the question isn't utilised in order to circumvent any operational requirements

[homersimpson]

You can fly over water when you depart and approach an hls without floats/life jackets. Suppose 200m puts it in a good ol’ grey area.

[kev kavanna]

Cheers for the replies,
whats the consensus on a safe distance ? unless the marine platforms attached to the shore line an engine failure at any stage you would end up in the drink regardless,
Have been on the hunt for floats but no success yet

[havick]

Cheers for the replies,
whats the consensus on a safe distance ? unless the marine platforms attached to the shore line an engine failure at any stage you would end up in the drink regardless,
Have been on the hunt for floats but no success yet

Think of how you will explain yourself if you end up in court with a drowned passenger, if you end up in the drink on the way out to your platform.

Is it reasonable to interpret the regs by using the take off and landing phase overwater (no floats or jackets) loophole, and apply it to a flight that has the intent of being entirely over water?

There was a guy cruising over to kangaroo island in SA at I think 10,000ft or something ridiculous doing charter to avoid putting floats on his R44. Pretty sure he ended up a little crispy doing some illegal instruction some time down the road.

Also don’t just think about Auto distance. If you want to be practical take into consideration gearbox issues etc. I can’t think of too many helos that ended up in the water due to an engine failure.

Just some food for thought.

[robaussie99]

Cheers for the replies,
whats the consensus on a safe distance ? unless the marine platforms attached to the shore line an engine failure at any stage you would end up in the drink regardless,
Have been on the hunt for floats but no success yet

Think about it this way, I’ll come along on the next flight with you, and at any moment, without warning, I’m going to kill the engine, can you stay dry? - if not, it’s probably not wise.

[robaussie99]

You can fly over water when you depart and approach an hls without floats/life jackets. Suppose 200m puts it in a good ol’ grey area.

Chop the engine 50ft after takeoff and show me how you’ll get back....

[helicopspeeder]

So I’m not sure it really matters how you interpret the regs. Your insurance company will be the one making the final call and they are going to tell you to go with floats.

[Eric Hunt]

Your insurance company will be the one making the final call and they are going to tell you to go jump.

There, I fixed it for you.