NZ student loans - beware defaulters living overseas

[Something clever]

If anyone who took this loan cannot pay it off. It is not a poor decision in their behalf. It is stupidity, laziness, and blatant arrogance.
I certainly didn't have an easy run but managed to pay mine off in 7 years.
So if you think it's not their fault they can't pay it off, you sir need to pull your head out. I don't know about all this crap about, whether its defined as loan or not, referring to what was said earlier. If the government calls it a student loan, then I figure its a student loan. If you don't figure it's a loan, again pull your head out.
And it just plain s#!t me that plenty of Australian lads crack the s#!t with me because I took the loan, because they think we got off easy. s#!t it would have been easier to get a mining job for 2 years and have no loan at all.
So if a someone such as myself who can hardly throw a factual argument into the mix can pay off the loan. So should anyone. And if they can't, take the money from them because it should be criminal. They stole $87,000 off the government.

[QED]

You're not getting the money back people... could I put it any simpler?

Some of the students with these massive loans are barely able to get jobs paying minimum wages... let alone anything like an income that will repay a student loan. At least in NZ you don't accrue interest... yet.

The point of the argument is that your not getting it back... now what? Do you criminalise dozens of people who might otherwise be able to make some contribution, albeit modified or do you drive them to exile or bankruptcy? In either case, yet again, NZ gets nothing.

Whilst it may be politically expedient, as is evidenced by the passionate responses on the forum, to vilify and marginalise people, the smarter option is to make a deal. Better for the individual and better for NZ.

After all, you people seem to quickly forget instances where people owe IRD massive sums in income or company taxes who negotiate deals to repay as little as 5c in the dollar!

You have to separate what 'ought' to be from reality. Is it fair that some repay fully whilst others get partially forgiven? Nope.. but then life is replete with examples of such inequity. Borrowers with tens of thousands in loan debts cant magically create money to service these debts. You can rage against it all you like but they are bad debts that wont be paid. Sending people bankrupt achieves nothing more than the smug satisfaction of punishing the wrong doer... the net result is a total loss of the principle amount to the tax payer.

There was this little thing called the GFC recently... you may have heard... banks got to write down squillions in bad debts at taxpayer expense and quickly turned it all around to make obscene profits. Why ought individuals be held to stricter rules?

Some of you have obviously taken the blue pill...

[Something clever]

Sure QED I get what your saying about us never getting it back.
I personally know a handful of blokes who can pay the loan off, but chose not too because they have exploited the system. And your right, the government won't get a cent from them, especially seen as they don't have any plan what so ever to return to the long white cloud.
Doesn't change the fact that what they have done is wrong.
To pay off the original loan of about ( don't quote it I'm sure it changed often ) of $87,000, about $5200 a year would just cover the interest. Might sound like alot, bit s#!t, pay more in smokes.
Anyway I'm getting passionate again. Like I said, your right we won't get it back, but lets find a way to punish ( wouldn't be fair if we didn't ) these people and get back something. Don't let them leave the country when they come back. Tax the hell out if them. Maybe that's what they'll do but it would defeat the purpose if the let the world know.
Just thinking aloud now.

[Evil Twin]

I can understand where QED is coming from and if you spent 5 minutes googling fractal banking systems you'd be horrified.

Student loans in NZ for helicopter pilots was a bit of a joke which is why the system was changed. The amount of fresh CPL's being pumped out far outweighed the opporunities available (pilot shortage, vietnam pilots retiring, don't make me laugh) by some considerable margin probably by 1000%. However, the amount of other 'junk' qualifications that student loans are available for is almost as horrifying as the fractal banking system. There are people out there who are professional students taking loan after loan, with no prospect or intention of every paying that money back, let alone the potential.

I spent time as a flight instructor in NZ at a flight school with student loans. At least 50% of the students have NO chance of ever becoming a professional pilot and we all knew it. The problem then is that the business looses the opportunity to turnover that cash so those that should never make it are pushed through just to keep the money turning over.

The whole system stinks but, most systems do if you look around long enough and hard enough. Should any descent taxpayer be funding the work shy? Not that much different really in the long run. In some ways I'd rather fun someones dreams than the champagne lifestyle of the politicians to be honest. The grandstanding is only there to buy votes anyway, so they can keep their heads in your trough.

ET

[5blades]

I blame the Government for agreeing to give loans to student pilots in the first place
I blame the NZQA/Govt for approving the loan system to "flight schools' and ignored the high hour instructors elsewhere in NZ who had a lot to give.
I blame the "flight schools" for ripping off hundreds of students for millions of dollars with broken promises to a land of milk and honey with flying jobs aplenty...you need a AS350 rating, C cat, Unlimited NVFR, Bell 206 rating, Hughes 500 rating etc....best I heard was 140k
I blame the students who naively believed all the crap they were spoon fed, wearing aviators and calling yourself a helicopter pilot at 150 hours does not get you a job !

For the miniscule percentage, (I heard TWO percent) who went onto fly as a career, who got the loan, sacrificed, worked hard in often S**T circumstances with S**T bosses didn't drop their lip when they where offered only a 500C not a AS350 for their first job, and have paid all/most of their loan back,I take my hat off...because there are some awesome success stories

For the other 98 percent..... reality sucks aye

[mhale71]

.... only a 500c ?

[FerrariFlyer]

As an aside, when I was working in Canada a few years back (around 6 years ago) I ran into a few young Kiwi pilots fresh from flight school in NZ armed with the knowledge that they'd walk into six figure salaried flying jobs in Canada after their training. They took the bait, spent the loaned money and than wandered around Canada in a fruitless search for work that just wasn't there. Very sad for them.

[muppet]

Fractional banking, reserve asset ratios, big brother and scoutmasters who aren't really into scouting... Who cares. Bottom line, you sign up for a loan, your decision, you pay it back. If someone is made an example of, the rest will suddenly pay attention. Earthquake victims? Seriously, QED? Take a breath and think before you type. Of course they are my taxes. And if they are now over here in Aussie without jobs, they might still be availing themselves of the fruits of my labours cos I am stupid enough to pay tax in both countries. Go work in the mines. Flip burgers for the clown. I don't care, just pay back what you owe. No mercy.

[BennyG]

Sending people bankrupt achieves nothing more than the smug satisfaction of punishing the wrong doer... the net result is a total loss of the principle amount to the tax payer.

So you now admit that the money actually did come from the taxpayer. I'm glad you've learnt something from this discussion.
For a minute there I thought that you were under the impression that the government coffers were filled with magical money trees.

[QED]

Ahhh....they're back, just as things were getting back on track. You two make me so proud to be a Kiwi.

Muppet, as Kiwis are in the most part ineligible for any kind of social security in Australia, I suspect they aren't supping at your ample bosom in both countries. Paying tax in both countries is a little foolish by the way... I'd maybe talk to a professional... perhaps on more than one account.

and BennyG... you may have missed the point somewhat. However, you do seem to have some insight... the government and the banks do in fact make money with 'magical money trees' but that is another discussion entirely.

I doubt many of the trainees who would be publicly flogged, tarred and feathered as an example to the rest of us under a Muppet / BennyG government log in to Bladeslapper. I suspect however the pair of you would be a little more circumspect in your opinions, were you to have to make the same argument to them as individuals and to their faces. I pay good money to see it though

[BennyG]

I'd be quite happy to have that argument with anyone face to face QED.

I've been there, had a big loan and been responsible for the repayments. Yeah it sucks, but no one put a gun to their head and made them do it in the first place.

I hope you don't have voting rights in Australia, otherwise I understand how Julia Gillard and her labor cronies got voted in.

[muppet]

I suspect they aren't supping at your ample bosom in both countries

What do you know about my bosoms? This is getting weirder by the minute. So, moving back away from your mammary fetish.... Your latest post was actually quite amusing, albeit once again a little short on facts. Yes, I am aware of the rather inequitable arrangement Gillard & co have in place for kiwis living in Aussie, but even if they are unemployed, they will still be enjoying the provision of services paid for by my Aussie taxes (eg parks, roads, Indigenous festivities...) As for professional help, giggle... you are probably not too far wrong on that account (with your razor sharp and ever so unsubtle reference to my state of mind), but I pay taxes in both countries simply because I own businesses in both places. Ain't much I can do about that.

Like Benny G, I find the entire non-repayment thing rather irksome on the basis that I too attended university and paid for my studies. Given my apparent lack of intellectual ability, should I now be able to sue the Government for failing to honour their side of the agreement and make me smarter? To argue that the loan defaulters were a little naive, does not obviate their moral responsibility for repaying said loans. And why wouldn't I 'say it to their faces'? After all, they are the ones being naughty, far easier for Benny G and myself who clearly sit safely on the moral high ground. Your smug comments regarding us not getting the money back (nah nah nah) suggests a part of you recognises the wrong done here by defaulters. Yet you seem to care little regarding my lost taxes - sniff. Perhaps you need to correlate the amount of student loans outstanding with the inability of old folk in NZ to receive timely medical services and then perhaps your selectively wizened heart may once again find balance. The loans should be repaid or the defaulters punished. quod erat demonstrandum

[VENISON]

Kiwi's In Auz with student loans back home
I just had a mean battle with the IRD about all of this mess, this is what you do to keep them happy.
Pay $500 before 30th Sept and $500 before 31st Mar each year they leave you alone.
It pays the 5-7% interest and the capital all good
(loans under 15K)
Lets be honest it needs to be paid back and why not do it while your creaming the auzzzy dollar, chur

[driftersabre]

A Kiwi is a flightless bird that is nocturnal. That must be why us Emu ausies fly so well. Bring back the biff, bring back some humour.

[QED]

You think you lot fly well ... that's cute... that must be why we're stealing all your good jobs?!

[BennyG]

You think you lot fly well ... that's cute... that must be why we're stealing all your good jobs?!

I'd say that's got more to do with the fact that you lot don't think you're worth very much.
And that probably comes from the fact that you're working on the basis that your license cost you nothing.