Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

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hellybelly
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby hellybelly » Wed Aug 20 2014, 21:11

well said
2rotorbro
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby 2rotorbro » Thu Aug 21 2014, 02:04

To suggest I was blaming the pilot or chief pilot is plainly incorrect. I am saying that there is clearly something wrong with THL's operational exposition & implementation.
Your logic is that it's okay to have 3/4 major incidents and accidents in 12-18 months - "don't worry about it - every company has a run with accidents"! That is just unacceptable and you are trivializing the seriousness of their situation and saying that a run of accidents because of the environment and amount of machines and pilots there, then it is acceptable. No - every company does not have a run of accidents. The whole reason for having exposition manuals, audits, SMS, just culture, etc etc and getting the whole staff on side to mitigate accidents and incidents so the rate disappears completely into an operation that runs incident/accident free for decades.
I bet THL don't greet their clientele at the door and state "we are perfectly happy that because of the way we operate we accept that there is a calculable risk that this flight will end in an incident/accident - we know we have operational problems but we will just gloss over them and instead of fixing up those issues we will just keep our fingers crossed".
Isn't it fact that a few years ago THL did appoint a cp with 600hours total time? If that was the case (and it might be very inaccurate) then how in the heck does someone with 600 hours get invited to undertake that role and how does the CAA approve that person? To my mind there is no way someone can be the chief pilot of an operation of that size and working in that environment and do an effective and reliable job - his decision making would be based on 600 hours of experience! C'mon.
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rotors99
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby rotors99 » Thu Aug 21 2014, 03:14

600hrs hmmmmm sounds very experienced & ready for such a serious job, what the fvk were they thinking?? Oc:=
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Thunder » Thu Aug 21 2014, 03:38

Interesting re Chief Pilot - Norm Kensington has well in excess of the 600 hours being mentioned on here.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Headset » Thu Aug 21 2014, 06:09

THL has never had a CP with only 600hr. Where do you get this rubbish. Mate you have no idea what your talking about.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Granny » Thu Aug 21 2014, 06:19

2rotorbro actually has a point amongst all this carnage- 20 years ago THL went through a similar accident pattern the AS350 that went in the drink in Auckland-AS350 at Fox with Bill Sarginson that killed 7 -the wheels were falling off and the AOC was in jeopardy. There was a major restructure an ex air force pilot was bought in and he developed and the implemented a very good Quality Assurance program that was implemented along with twin engine AS355 and a restructure of pilot pay from a retainer and bonus based on flight hours to a straight salary based amount option depending on the days worked on a weekly basis. And it all flowed along beautifully and safely-they had a good training program with a very competent and dedicated training pilot -but then along came the "jet boat driver"-who bought the operation and slashed pilot salary's by 50% and generally drove the operation into a 'Jetstar' helicopter operation that was all about saving money-and guess what -experience moves away-a new chief pilot gets employed for a salary amount that a line pilot should be paid -and the wheels are falling off again-the accident this weekend may not be anything to do with all this recent history -I have no idea of what caused it. But what is a shame- is to see a decent operation destroyed by this guy who is now the mouthpiece for the damage control and fallout from this accident.
By coincidence the recent spate of accidents has coincided with the departure of RD because of the cost of hiring him as a consultant training pilot and doing training in house!- And for the record THL did have a chief pilot with 600 helicopter hours.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby as350_nut » Thu Aug 21 2014, 06:49

The harshest of environments and the most challenging and unpredictable. A very sad outcome of what appears to be an unfortunate chain of events out of the pilots control. But also a very lucky one for the other parties involved.
I could be a couch referee and tell you all it's a sh*t company , the pilots got their licenses from yesterday's weetbix box and no one knows as much as I do but I'm a believer in karma and don't know the chain of events that lead to the accident AND I wasn't watching it unfold in the flesh.

Im sure the pilot did exactly what he felt was the correct response to what he was dealing with and did a good job at that to have the number survive that did. Best of a luck on a fast recovery for all involved and condolences to the family and friends of the lost one.
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hellybelly
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby hellybelly » Thu Aug 21 2014, 07:36

From what I have seen of THL, I would have said they have a reasonably comprehensive system with their exposition/check and training etc compared to a lot of outfits here in NZ. It seems their guys seem to have to jump through a lot of hoops to be able to do anything and advance up through the company structure. It seems a very controlled environment... I agree that to have a run of accidents like that that is far from good, it is not something that you can just 'gloss over', but I do think that its a bit harsh to assume it must be a failure of the company structure and put the actions and decisions of these guys back on the company?

You can be given all the tools and training to go out and do a job, but to end up in a situation where the aircraft doesn't come home, is that a fault of the company because the exposition wasn't written right? the fault of check and training because they signed him off to heli ski? or is it that the pilot made a wrong decision, or had a mechanical failure, or whatever the case may be, and didn't make it home....? The nature of human factors is that people make mistakes, the nature of things mechanical is that they can fail. Yes there can be failures on the companies part too, but i just wonder if it is a bit harsh to point the finger at the company and assume it is a failure within their system? Or that they should be responsible no matter what....

I guess its hard to speculate until the details all come out in the wash, but its all food for thought!

Condolences and wishing the guys a speedy recovery. Fly safe guys.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Ecosse » Thu Aug 21 2014, 08:25

Last time I saw Norms log book it was over 11000 hours and I can assure you his remuneration is in line with jobs of similar responsibility in NZ. Those who doubt his credentials or ability should give him a ring - I am sure he will share his thoughts on the past 18 months at THL.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Firefish » Fri Aug 22 2014, 05:22

It never ceases to amaze me how after an incident/accident people line up to rip the s#!t out of everyone involved from the director to the office girl. Maybe a few people should go and stand in front of a mirror and ask themselves "Am I really as s#!t hot as I think I am". And then wait for the report to come out.
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby Granny » Fri Aug 22 2014, 06:47

Nobody is pretending to be s#!t hot!- I was just telling it how it was, sometimes the truth hurts.
KNOW NUFFEN
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby KNOW NUFFEN » Fri Aug 22 2014, 13:31

Is there any other company that has had 3 or 4 major incidents in the last 12 to 18 months ??
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bladepitch
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby bladepitch » Fri Aug 22 2014, 18:41

I don't know this company personally. I only know the pilot. I have no details of the accident. I Wont be making further comment after this post.
But In the past I have been on their chopper for a remarkables trip. Amazing experience!

It's easy for Someone to sling mud from behind a username.

If it's the truth then put your real name to it. Man up and stand by your words.

Or would that hurt as well......
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby SuperF » Fri Aug 22 2014, 22:38

KN, sometimes it comes down to size. There is another company down there rolling one up every year, and they only have 3 to start with... There was another company that did 5 in one year, about 20 over 10 years, maybe more, it was a few years ago, the year they did 5, they started with 8!
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Re: Heli Ski accident - Wanaka NZ Discussion

Postby gomerpyle » Fri Nov 21 2014, 07:36

Ive just found this thread, although I had heard about it. As someone who has had over 30 years of Alpine flying about the place, I am amazed that anyone can make such judgmental comments within a day of an accident with absolutely no idea of the facts behind the accident. We are in a fact based industry, so lets not immerse ourselves in soft sands of conjecture..... this is aviation, not politics.

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