Army pilot pay

What's a job in helicopters pay? Does it pay? Why do you get paid more than me?
Dauphin
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Dauphin » Sun Apr 4 2010, 11:31

Slap Me - I feel your pain.
vortexaction
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby vortexaction » Sun Apr 4 2010, 11:42

Smackhawk,

I think you'll find Dauphin is correct. Here is a link to the new payscale. There is no difference between the 3 services.

http://minister.defence.gov.au/dpe/pac/Brochure_OARS.pdf
Smackhawk
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Smackhawk » Sun Apr 4 2010, 12:09

vortexaction wrote:Smackhawk,

I think you'll find Dauphin is correct. Here is a link to the new payscale. There is no difference between the 3 services.

http://minister.defence.gov.au/dpe/pac/Brochure_OARS.pdf


Are you looking at the legacy matrix on the 1st page? Look at the second page, note Army sub-unit command, PG6, RAAF/RAN sub-unit cmd is PG7, and then they stay a paygrade above from then on.
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby vortexaction » Sun Apr 4 2010, 12:29

Smackhawk, descrepancy noted.

Mind you this is pretty far along in the payscale, and in all reality it will take anyone who's recently joined close to 10yrs to hit that mark on the new scheme - and you'll never hit it if you want to remain in the army flying game anyhow.

I think the bigger issue to contemplate is the overall reduction in salary due to the new scheme. In the legacy scheme you could remain as a line pilot and reach PG10. Not so in the new scheme, unless you want to work your way up as a specialist which will take considerably longer Oc:=
Dauphin
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Dauphin » Sun Apr 4 2010, 12:51

Smackhawk,
You are talking rubbish. You start off by saying "Army recently cut its pilot pay" and offer no proof. When I mentioned competency based pay you said "This has nothing to do with the new(ish) competency based pay system." You then quote a very tenuous discrepancy in the competency based pay system (after what - 10 years service?) as your proof that Army pilot pay has been cut. Make up your mind.
The pay scales are here -
http://www.defence.gov.au/dpe/pac/Pay_Allow_Nov_09.pdf
and you are clearly earning exactly the same as a RAAF or RAN pilot at the equivalent stage of his career.
Last edited by Dauphin on Sun Apr 4 2010, 12:52, edited 1 time in total.
UnObvious
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby UnObvious » Sun Apr 4 2010, 12:51

Skywork wrote:...
I am not getting in a pi$$ing match with military v civilian pilots but they need to harden up, all they have to do is fly the aircraft not worry about all the other things that a civi pilot has too and as for they get one chance, are you saying that a civi pilot who is struggling to pay for his licence is going to go casual and not care about giving it his all and risk having to do parts of his flying or flight test again, or are u saying the standards are higher in the military


Military pilots have to worry about things that Civvi pilots don't need to worry about too. This argument will go on til the end of time. Can't we all just.. get along? We all drink beer, right?

As for the standards being higher in the military, I think it's more of a question as to the maintenance and enforcement of standards, rather than the standard of the individual pilots. So if that was the argument, then yes, you could probably say that the military have higher standards.

Remember, this isn't saying that military pilots are better than civvi pilots. Let's keep the knot tied on that bag of fun.
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Smackhawk » Sun Apr 4 2010, 13:40

Dauphin wrote:Smackhawk,
You are talking rubbish. You start off by saying "Army recently cut its pilot pay" and offer no proof. .

Didn't vortexation's link tidy that one up? OK, maybe I should have said "as of Oct 2009, new applicants will be on different packages compared to RAAF/RAN that caps out at a lower rate". And the pay grade progression just isn't there in the new scheme. eg. a QFI, posted back to the SQN could easily be on PG9. For new guys, that will never happen. I don't see how this new system is designed to keep experience in. To me that says that Army values its pilots less... by paying them less - especially the experienced ones.

Dauphin wrote:When I mentioned competency based pay you said "This has nothing to do with the new(ish) competency based pay system." You then quote a very tenuous discrepancy in the competency based pay system (after what - 10 years service?) as your proof that Army pilot pay has been cut. Make up your mind.
The pay scales are here -
http://www.defence.gov.au/dpe/pac/Pay_Allow_Nov_09.pdf
and you are clearly earning exactly the same as a RAAF or RAN pilot at the equivalent stage of his career.

We've already said it doesn't affect those in the system now - even though the offer to swap over is there.
GOPS came in first, with the pay grades replacing flying allowances for Q&S, around 2005 I think, that's what I meant by "new(ish)", then the aircrew pay review happened. Sorry for the confusion - I'm not a pay clerk, I could be wrong in the definitions of GOPS - sorry.

Refer to vortexations link - I don't think that's "very tenuous" - Army pilot pay caps out early. 10 yrs from now is just around the corner - and there will probably be a boom in civil pilot hiring at that time - so new system fails in its attempt to keep experience in.

Dauphin, I'm not here to have a go, I think we got off on the wrong foot. I'm not interested in pissing matches, but I like provoking friendly thoughts and debate.
Safe flying all.
griffinforever
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby griffinforever » Sun Apr 4 2010, 15:28

Work harder?
griffinforever
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby griffinforever » Sun Apr 4 2010, 15:37

Another option is you could just go back to Kiowa and then you would be the highest paid in the crew...?
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby mhale71 » Mon Apr 5 2010, 03:48

Eric, I was at Bae systems where they do the BFTS training and FSP programs only the other week, and the helmets are of a decent size, i would be surprised if it only added 2" to the top of your head, Granted myne was padded a little bit, but between the helmet itself, and the plastic guard for the visor thing on top of that, i would have thaught at least 3 - 4", If Im wrong; then Im wrong, but they did seem pretty big, And i was told that one of the causes of problems in the kiowa was a new helmet or new avionics, or something to do with a Bar that you have to share your headspace with..

A lot of those instructors have been flying a Long time, One of the ex Captains I flew with has been flying since 1975, he didnt tell me his exact hours, another one who used to fly with the SA air force said he had about 10,500 in pumas, And another person i flew with did some herc flying in iraq, so I didnt particularily doubt any of the figures i was being told.
Skywork, i dont wanna get into a pissing match either, and i dont question that the stakes are high In the civvi world.
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Eric Hunt
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Eric Hunt » Mon Apr 5 2010, 10:14

MHale,
That is the point I was making - the instructors haven't been serving in the military long enough to get 10,000 hrs. I spent 15 years in the air force and only got 3000 hrs out of it. Picked up another 10,000 since then and I am back instructing military students.
I am 182 cm tall, wear a helmet in the B206, and don't have a problem with it. Neither do the students.
The army has dug a hole for itself with this height regulation - the tail wags the dog, nobody is permitted to take a risk of any sort, a regulation must exist to cover every situation, and nobody is game enough to say "This is crap."
Skywork
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Re: Army pilot pay

Postby Skywork » Mon Apr 5 2010, 10:54

mhale71 wrote: i would be surprised if it only added 2" to the top of your head, Granted myne was padded a little bit, but between the helmet itself, and the plastic guard for the visor thing on top of that, i would have thaught at least 3 - 4", If Im wrong; then Im wrong, but they did seem pretty big, And i was told that one of the causes of problems in the kiowa was a new helmet or new avionics, or something to do with a Bar that you have to share your headspace with..

Agwagon, fletcher, Cresco, Airtractor, Drom, R22, R44, H300, H500,B206, AS350 ,Huey. All Flown with a Helmet, they all have things in the cockpit to bang your head on and the smaller craft definatly not much room as you all know and I aint no dwarf(not as tall as Eric though) and I do not complain and all pilots that fly with me have to wear one as well. No Helmet No fly and I do not care how much they add to the noggin, 2" or 4" does not matter you learn to move your head around these obstacles.

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