Discussion on wages

What's a job in helicopters pay? Does it pay? Why do you get paid more than me?
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helothere
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Discussion on wages

Postby helothere » Tue Nov 8 2005, 10:45

Just been perusing the Industrial Relations Commission website, specifically the award wages and conditions of us heli pilots.

http://www.bladeslapper.com/content/bb/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=737


Anyone care to comment?
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Postby smouc430 » Wed Nov 16 2005, 05:57

S#!TFULL ISNT IT!!. However Im sure that there is more than a few drivers out there on less than that. Might have to drop a copy to the CEO!! :wink:
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bellslapper
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award wage

Postby bellslapper » Tue Mar 7 2006, 23:24

The old question beckons why is there an award?? if very few are on the award,(in the tourist industry that is) there are no penalties if an employer doesn’t pay the award. Your unable to complain as the rich kid coming up behind you, are willing to work for scraps = hours, as Mummy and Daddy makes up the remainder of the income.
My question is “The award has no bearing on open pilot warranty”? as I have been told in the past. It is for the helicopter industry from the time you leave the flight school with R22 endorsement and 70hrs right through to captain on a Puma with 10000+hrs, unless there is an EBA in place. Am I correct in saying this?

.
Last edited by bellslapper on Sat Aug 19 2006, 02:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby smouc430 » Tue Mar 7 2006, 23:43

The whole idea of an award is to have a saftey net for employees. However If your not company is not part of the system then its legaly able to pay peanuts. EBAs are the only way to go, the key is to seek employment with a company with high profit margins (larger operators with multiple contracts) not your small tourist operator that is charging $30 per seat. But we all have to start somewhere, its the ol catch 22! More often than not the grass IS greener on the other side!!!!!
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Postby flyagain » Thu Mar 9 2006, 03:08

Not so

I called wage line not to long ago and they told me that our award became federal in March of 04. Therefore ALL companies are bound by the award unless they have an AWA or EBA in place.

There is nothing anywhere to do with the term "open warranty" or anything remotely close. I think this term has been made up by some fellow who likes to fool himself into being able to sleep at night.
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Postby flyagain » Thu Mar 9 2006, 09:04

Anyway, how many small operators (no money) are there? All the ones I see are doing quite well for themselves thanks for coming... The rest of your award is just lining thier pockets.

Where do you get a helicopter flight for $30? Try $40, two people minimum for a five minute flight. You do the math with a 44.

I know the time is valuable but lets not fool ourselves.
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Postby flyagain » Thu Mar 9 2006, 23:56

If all the pilots in any of these "small" organisations got together, you could hold them to ransom.

If one kicks up a fuss then out the door. If all kick in, you may get what you want. :twisted:
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paymaster
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EBAs and Awards

Postby paymaster » Sun Jun 18 2006, 09:01

Does anyone have awards / EBAs for Jayrow & Australian Helicopters . I would like to make up a comparision table.

Thanks
Last edited by paymaster on Sun Jun 18 2006, 12:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Train Crash » Thu Jun 29 2006, 11:00

There really is two sides to the wage story.

On one hand you have pilots with the hours and experience to demand the pay they deserve and on the other you have young green pilots that need a break and a lot of extra training to put them in a position where they are able to fill such a position.

If you have a look at the industry at the moment there are some great opportunities to get a gig with suitable remuneration however, your experience level must be such that you are attractive to the potential employer.

From personal experience, I can remember thinking I was going to set the industry alight with my piloting talent, straight out of flight school.

It takes a few years to realise that straight out of flight school you are not that handy in the "make the boss a quid area".

Ten years ago the employment conditions and the future prospects were a lot darker than today.

If your a green pilot and you think you have what it takes, don't whinge about the struggle of getting your first 1500 hours, go out and get them, get one of these great opportunities that are on offer these days and set the bloody world on fire!!!!

There has never been so many opportunities on offer in our industry as there are today.

Remember the harder you work the luckier you get.

Cheers

T.C.
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Postby blackhawk » Wed Jul 5 2006, 07:52

In the world of green pilots or pilots under 500 hours .. anyone want to comment on there wage or a "friends" wage ? ?
And for people over 500 whats yours like ? ? 8) basically whats the average wage some of you are getting P.W ? or P.A ? ?
"flying through tree's...."

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Postby slappy » Wed Jul 5 2006, 09:26

I started at a place with 400 hours on $400 a week. Prior to that I was paid $170 a day for ground work and nothing for the flying. I was OK with that as the guy didn't need someone of my humble experience and really was doing me a favour. I learnt a lot.
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Postby Rivet » Tue Mar 11 2008, 04:41

does any one know the average pay rate for a base manager in oz/canada?
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Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Mar 11 2008, 15:44

In Canada it depends on which company you decide to work with, along with a few other variables such as monthly salary, flight pay her hour, minimums for daily flight pay and a coupl other things. I dont want to give exact figures, but its a far superior package that is offered in Canada for the average pilot.

For about a 1000hr pilot expect about $3000 AUD a month and about $50-60 AUD per flight hour...it does start to add up to a good package. Mind you, the average pilot is also doing different work to their Aussie counterparts and its not unusual to find 1000hr pilots with several hundred hours of long lining, loads of confined area work and almost all that experience spent in the bush in generally diminsihed weather conditions from the day they finish their licence. The current boom in Canada is also helping to return wages back to what they used to be a few years ago. Its still often the case the case that a guy cutting down a tree earns far more then the guy flying him to/from work, but that is changing.
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Postby Freewheel » Tue Mar 11 2008, 23:00

I know a fellow who bumped into his predecessor in a small company.

The replacement had been butting heads with the boss about a couple of things and asked his predecessor about whether he'd had the same experience.

The predecessor made the comment that "Yeah he was pretty unreasonable and in the end $50 an hour wasn't worth it, even for the experience.

The replacement just about fainted. He was getting $35 per hour flown.


I couldn't do much for him except suggest he should be taking his family to somewhere he might get the award, or at least have a lower cost of living.


I'm sure plenty will read other things into this, but it says to me it was all about gouging the eyes out of everybody, rather than looking after the people who will look after you.
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Postby Thomas » Tue Mar 11 2008, 23:48

Two years ago I was earning $47000 a year salary flying a turbine with less than 500 hrs with accom and power paid for, in australia. great job. anyone who is willing to work for free should be .... There is plenty of money out there you just have to look and ask for it.
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Postby The Stig » Wed Mar 12 2008, 00:56

I have two friends both trying like mad to get in to the heli game, both have new tickets and 22 and 44 on there license. They have spent the last six months driving all over Oz looking for work. One was offered work but the owner could not "afford" to pay him, instead would put him up for free. AAHHHHHHHH. Another operator offered work put CRAP pay and wanted a two year bond.

I feel very sorry for all the newbies arriving in our industry as there a lot of chancers out there looking for the desperate new guy/girl looking for there first 500 hours.
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Postby Uncle Chop Chop » Wed Mar 12 2008, 01:32

Some say...... he has a robotic brain and can fly a helicopter with his eyes closed..... all I know, is he's called the Stig......
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Re: Discussion on wages

Postby ground_defect » Wed Jul 2 2008, 12:47

There are certainly some unethical operators out there ( little/no pay ). Not all, just some. Had to learn the hard way that "all that glitters" cetainly aint gold.

GD
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Re: Discussion on wages

Postby bellslapper » Thu Jul 3 2008, 12:52

It’s all very well to criticise those who work for free, and if you come straight from flight school into a job, you’re very bloody lucky; it took me 2 years for my first PAID job. I don’t agree working for free, but if you don’t take every opportunity that comes along, you may miss out on something good.

I think too many expect to come out of flight school and go straight into that great paid job; you need to look at it for the long term where you want to be in 2yrs, 5yrs and so forth. (I guess it doesn’t help being the NOW generation where everything has to happen NOW).

Australia isn’t a 3rd world country, but its wages sure don’t reflect it at times. (Government unable to have the resources to fix it).
There are plenty of pilots who have dragged there families around the country that have done it tuff, worked for the back yard, unethical operators,(so don t think your alone there, I think 95% of the pilots I have met have done the hard yards, the ones starting out in OZ that is) and now they fly S76,412, 139,AS350, 130etc various work from fire fighting, SAR, offshore , Police Air wing,Tourism etc.

There are plenty opportunities out there, you just have to be the right person in the right place at the right time.( make your own luck, like my instructor use to say) Of course there will be pilots that have a CPL and no job in 5 yrs time the same as any profession, every year people are dropping out of universities , TAFEs , colleges, work centres, because they don’t have the determination to finish or because its too hard and they are too soft.

So enjoy the ride and meet some great people and even better places.
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Re: Discussion on wages

Postby ground_defect » Thu Jul 3 2008, 13:56

Fair point. My criticism is not at pilots that work for nothing. My critiscism is at owner/operators on 6 digit incomes, while they exploit young players for their own greed. Dont wanna hit a nerve here, but that's been my experience. As I said, some companies, not all.

Your line is "that's how it's always been". Maybe - maybe not. Doesnt make it right...

Safe flying,

GD

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