Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
- hand in pants
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Sep 2006
Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Just started to go through the draft CAAP.
80 pages of buzz words and important sounding titles all aimed at lawyers.
Another load of crap bought to us by those responsible for Part 60, 141 and 142.
Why does everything have to be written so we have difficulty understanding it and why is it laid out in such a manner that you have to chase all over the document to find an answer.
Where did the old CAO Part 48 go so wrong that we need to have something like this in it's place.
And whatever happened to "I'm tired, I'm not going to fly today" Nobody can make you fly if you are tired. If someone does, you're an idiot for allowing it to happen. And if you fly when you are too tired anyway, you're an even bigger idiot.
80 pages of buzz words and important sounding titles all aimed at lawyers.
Another load of crap bought to us by those responsible for Part 60, 141 and 142.
Why does everything have to be written so we have difficulty understanding it and why is it laid out in such a manner that you have to chase all over the document to find an answer.
Where did the old CAO Part 48 go so wrong that we need to have something like this in it's place.
And whatever happened to "I'm tired, I'm not going to fly today" Nobody can make you fly if you are tired. If someone does, you're an idiot for allowing it to happen. And if you fly when you are too tired anyway, you're an even bigger idiot.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Jun 2014
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
whatever happened to "I'm tired, I'm not going to fly today" Nobody can make you fly if you are tired. If someone does, you're an idiot for allowing it to happen. And if you fly when you are too tired anyway, you're an even bigger idiot.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Jan 2008
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Maybe talk to the people that are on the only true 24hr operation in Australia and see if they are rested enough to answer. Hint: MPT
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Nov 2013
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
You might as well wipe your arse on any CAAPs , while they are advisory no one gives a s#!t , if CASA and the ATSB had any teeth they would make the CAAP,s LAW
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Nov 2013
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
rotarycat wrote:Maybe talk to the people that are on the only true 24hr operation in Australia and see if they are rested enough to answer. Hint: MPT
MPT....
1. Profit
2. Profit
3. Profit
4. Profit
5. Safety
- hand in pants
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
They publish "CAAP's" for the legal profession. that way the lawyers have something in writing to use in a court. Things like "duty of care" and "responsibility for safety" when used against you in court are real winners when they have something in writing from the authority to stich you up.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Jul 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
As a person muddling my way through writing an ops manual I started to read this. It is so full of crap jargon and abbreviations for abbreviations sake I gave it up. This is supposed to be the explanatory document for gods sake. If I wanted legalise I would go to the source regulation. It was full of the same abbreviation junk. In my opinion not all of it necessary.
It is so poorly written it is a joke surely to see if anyone would react.
Dear casa people on this site. You are welcome to contact me as I am completely sick if having this sort of mess put to me as how to run a business safely. Please pm / contact me if you would like this written in plain English for you. I would even do it for free just to get some common sense into this third tier document.
Yes I will be putting my views to the author of the document through the consultation process. I write on this site so as to encourage others to stick their head up..it's the only way these advisory documents will start to get to us in plain English. Regulations I understand need to be done by lawyers in double speak to cover all bases as much as possible, but advisory documents should be in plain English and helpful.
It is so poorly written it is a joke surely to see if anyone would react.
Dear casa people on this site. You are welcome to contact me as I am completely sick if having this sort of mess put to me as how to run a business safely. Please pm / contact me if you would like this written in plain English for you. I would even do it for free just to get some common sense into this third tier document.
Yes I will be putting my views to the author of the document through the consultation process. I write on this site so as to encourage others to stick their head up..it's the only way these advisory documents will start to get to us in plain English. Regulations I understand need to be done by lawyers in double speak to cover all bases as much as possible, but advisory documents should be in plain English and helpful.
- CYHeli
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Jun 2006
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Hey chocolate, I fully agree.
Give em hell.
Give em hell.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mar 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Hey All.
Just my thoughts
I hope more than just 1 slapper will pursue change to the draft CAAP as outlined here. I have not seen the draft as yet, would someone post it here so we can read it. With that I hope we unite either by petition or individual correspondence and let author of the document know our thoughts. We cannot sit by and let the CHAIRBORNE DIVISION push these ever changing thought bubbles on the industry.
With Christmas around the corner I would suggest a present for these bureaucrats. A roll of toilet paper to wipe their chin of all the S*** spewing from their mouths.
Just my thoughts
I hope more than just 1 slapper will pursue change to the draft CAAP as outlined here. I have not seen the draft as yet, would someone post it here so we can read it. With that I hope we unite either by petition or individual correspondence and let author of the document know our thoughts. We cannot sit by and let the CHAIRBORNE DIVISION push these ever changing thought bubbles on the industry.
With Christmas around the corner I would suggest a present for these bureaucrats. A roll of toilet paper to wipe their chin of all the S*** spewing from their mouths.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 97
- Joined: Sep 2009
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Hey chocolate,
Don't work for free!
Don't work for free!
- CYHeli
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Jun 2006
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
WayOutWest, try this link.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mar 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Thanks CY. Quickly browsed through it. But I felt fatigued and eye strain because of its length. The advice I did look at closely, is the sort of stuff being forced on us in so many aspects of life 'NOT USING OUR OWN JUDGEMENT'. If I was to give the author a Christmas gift it would be a multiple pack of toilet roll, there is a lot dribbling down his/her chin.
I will look at the business opportunity this could lead to, a training course to understand the CAAPS. I should lay down for a rest. Nah, will read some more of the 80 pages to really know if I am fatigued.
I will look at the business opportunity this could lead to, a training course to understand the CAAPS. I should lay down for a rest. Nah, will read some more of the 80 pages to really know if I am fatigued.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Jul 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
The Scarlett Harlot wrote:Hey chocolate,
Don't work for free!
Would love them to pay me to review their public documents but it just ain't gonna happen! So I volunteer some time to try to get some sense into it. And some plain English text.
So far I love how it's all hard limit this and hard limit that, then on page 14 it's oh you could create a soft flight and duty time limits. And no further explanation of what that is or how you do it?
The gotcha is the requirement to report extensions to duties to casa. In the reg is says within fourteen days (took a while to find that gem) and not on the caap. Gotcha for someone using the caap to write their ops manual.
And a big fat gotcha if you have an accident investigated.
Regardless, Anyway it's an example of over regulation strangling business.
- If I Was A Bird
- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 494
- Joined: Nov 2007
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Anyway it's an example of over regulation strangling business
and there's a lot of strangling going on http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-29/business-costs-itself-billions-in-internal-red-tape/5849994
if only CASA would get rid of 1000 rules!!
"I'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart" - annon heli pilot....
- hand in pants
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
email just sent to author.......................
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mar 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Hip, Would you be able to place the authors email addy here so we can all have the opportunity to send an email to voice our concerns and feedback as it only a draft. We all should get in early and have traceable correspondence for future reference. It is not that I am lazy but the fish are biting and have to get priorities in correct order.
Strength in numbers.
Cheers
Strength in numbers.
Cheers
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Jul 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
way-out-west wrote:Hip, Would you be able to place the authors email addy here so we can all have the opportunity to send an email to voice our concerns and feedback as it only a draft. We all should get in early and have traceable correspondence for future reference. It is not that I am lazy but the fish are biting and have to get priorities in correct order.
Strength in numbers.
Cheers
Ian.banks@casa.gov.au
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- 1st Dan
- Posts: 288
- Joined: Nov 2012
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
If a persons are 'used to' (being forced to) understand 'legalese', if they read through 10-15 lines of text and then try to 'sum it up' themselves and fail to do so, that's (induced) mental fatigue right there.
Reading the words but context and true meaning escaping. That's how I diagnose myself not being fit to study (doing EASA ATPL theory, done Part 66 course in past and more).
If someone's 'rested' and gets weary reading fatigue management legalese meant to be plain English and 'common sense', then the objective hasn't been met.
Reading the words but context and true meaning escaping. That's how I diagnose myself not being fit to study (doing EASA ATPL theory, done Part 66 course in past and more).
If someone's 'rested' and gets weary reading fatigue management legalese meant to be plain English and 'common sense', then the objective hasn't been met.
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Mar 2011
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Just fishing at the moment not catching. Email sent and acknowledged as sent.
- hand in pants
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Draft CAAP for Fatigue Management
Thanks chocky, beat me to it................
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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