letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

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crow
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letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby crow » Sun Jun 15 2014, 23:24

Just wondering what other people with CVD thought of the letter sent out by CASA. I guess I understand that they are looking into this matter, but for one it seemed like a nothing (if, but, maybe) letter trying to get people to panic and hand in their licence. Or are CASA seriously thinking of revoking flight crew privileges of VFR pilots.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby FerrariFlyer » Mon Jun 16 2014, 02:20

Watch this space. CASA have been written to by a professional pilot body with a view to having their last written communication withdrawn. Of late, CASA have churned out some very curious decisions that don't appear to make sense or meet with reason or validity.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby hand in pants » Mon Jun 16 2014, 04:42

Not talking about Parts 61, 141 and 142 are you......................................

I'm about to make a large change to our operations manual and I thought I would need to rewrite the whole thing to come into line with the new system (manual of standards) but have been told not to bother, just do it in the current form.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Meatloaf » Mon Jun 16 2014, 07:22

After reading the letter, I'm very interested to see what action they take.

Exactly what can they do to people who've done a faultless couple of thousand hours?

While it didn't hint of any decisions they'll be making, it didn't sound like they've got good news coming.
and now for something completely different
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby BBwantok » Mon Jun 16 2014, 08:38

This is a must watch... and you wonder why a lot of the industry hold them in contempt..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-uCRi7N2wQ
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby crow » Mon Jun 16 2014, 11:00

No HIP the discussion is regarding to a letter sent out by casa - I have attached the letter.
I hope you are on to something there FF, and all I can say is at least the senator has some logical thinking, just like meatloaf,but the casa bloke obviously doesn't like to be wrong which could be bad for us.
Attachments
CVD Letter16062014_0000.pdf
letter in question
(63.82 KiB) Downloaded 312 times
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Meatloaf
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Meatloaf » Tue Jun 17 2014, 02:15

FF can you elaborate on that post any further?
and now for something completely different
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Jun 17 2014, 05:03

Meatloaf wrote:FF can you elaborate on that post any further?


Standby on this.

One would think that if CASA were going to introduce such a substantial change with wide-ranging implications for both individuals and companies alike, the recent medical research they draw reference to would be furnished in full to the industry.

It must also be noted that medical research is subject to change, often times with completely opposite findings to the first bit of research! (This week coffee is bad for you...next week coffee is good for you etc etc)
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Jun 17 2014, 11:29

Letter posted with permission from AFAP. As a side note, this is as good a reason as any to join the AFAP for representation when it is most needed.


12 June 2014

Mr John McCormick
Director of Aviation Safety
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
GPO Box 2005
CANBERRA ACT 2601

via email: john.mccormick@casa.gov.au


Dear Mr McCormick,

Re: Colour Vision Deficiency (CVD)

I am writing on behalf of the AFAP to express our concern over the letter dated 5
June 2014 from Peter Fereday to AOC holders regarding Colour Vision Deficiency
(CVD).

The AFAP believes it is unreasonable and inappropriate that CASA is asking
companies or the affected pilots to make assessments about their ability to hold a
medical certificate. CASA issued the medical certificates in question and the affected
pilots have been operating under these certificates in good faith.

AOC holders and the pilots themselves are not privy to the “recent medical research”
to which CASA refers in its letter nor are they medically qualified to make the
assessment requested. If CASA wish to change the regulations regarding colour
vision then CASA should follow the correct and established processes. CASA’s letter
of 5 June 2014 is in our view an abuse of process.

We request that CASA formally retract the letter of 5 June 2014.

Please also be aware that we will be supporting any of our members who are unfairly
discriminated against as a result of CASA’s letter.

Please feel free to contact me, our Technical Director, Captain Peter Gardiner or
Executive Director Simon Lutton if you have any questions regarding the above.

Yours sincerely


Captain Bryan Murray

cc. peter.fereday@casa.gov.au
pooshan.navathe@casa.gov.au
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby aussiecop » Tue Jun 17 2014, 12:26

This is one instance where I was impressed by the senator in that video. He's hauling them over the coals because he has done his research and he asks them for safety related evidence of any issue within the last 20 years in Australia and the only thing they can reply with is that there was one crash attributed to an F/O in the USA. WTF, I give kudos to the senator for calling them out. But they clearly don't give a rats clacker what anyone thinks. They are a bunch of rogues at CASA which is evidenced over and over again. I heard yesterday that the girl that rolled the 206 at the racecourse during the GP is still grounded because CASA wont give her clearance to fly and is now almost destitute.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Meatloaf » Tue Jun 17 2014, 21:29

Thanks for posting that on here FF.

It all seems a bit wild, especially after I recently found out that when you fail the Ishihara plate test, you can still get your class 1 with no further testing required (ie farnsworth lantern test).

All that happens is that you get the endorsements Australian airspace only/not for ATPL ops on your medical until you proceed with those tests. For a bunch who were so relaxed about it before, it's a big change of mind.
and now for something completely different
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby FerrariFlyer » Tue Jun 17 2014, 21:51

Meatloaf wrote: For a bunch who were so relaxed about it before, it's a big change of mind.


They've been known to do that from time to time. I had a hell of a time getting my medical back last year and they changed their minds a couple times at the 11th hour without any good reason. Without going into detail, the whole process of getting the medical reinstated was quite frustrating, inconsistent and generally disappointing. Hopefully this latest CVD issue does not manifest into something similar for other fellow pilots.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Stochastic » Wed Jun 18 2014, 01:40

The medical facts are sound. The basis for acting upon them seems less so.

The Senator's question of "What is the safety case?" wasn't answered. His point of spending funds to investigate whether or not there is a safety case (experience would suggest not), instead of funding tribunals is very good. He also made a good point, in that the use of NVIS is akin to using a CVD simulator. This opens a bit of a can of worms, does NVIS exacerbate CVD? should all pilots be tested for CVD whilst under NVIS? Should anyone wearing NVIS be limited to daytime ops as some CVD pilots are? Clearly preposterous.

Has anyone here used PAPI through NVIS? (I have never had a set on my head) What did it do and how did you manage any required compensations? Do the regs allow it?
Also, if possible can someone view the test on the link below with NVIS and tell us if you could determine the colours and movement? Would be interesting to hear what happens.

Citing an ICAO mandate as a reason for progressing is to some extent divesting leadership. Leadership, which the Senetor pointed out, that CASA displayed on the world stage when dealing with age restrictions and use of SSRIs. Professor Navathe stated that there is a much larger body of work available to support the study when looking at SSRIs, which is true, and his point about variablity of testing input deficiencies in an operational environment is also true. Yet a small body of work will only grow through studies and being added to, and the pilots whith many thousands of hours of safe operation have been checked so many times as to negate much of the effects of variability. (That doesn't yet help the new pilots though)

We are a "state of chief importance" in the ICAO council, and CASA can and does guide ICAO policy. Why not do so here by investigating a safety case and developing operational testing standards which elimate as much variability as possible?

City University's page: http://www.city.ac.uk/health/research/c ... ision-test

A brief paper (with references) regarding the technical aspects of the test: http://www.city-occupational.co.uk/papers/CIE_2006.pdf
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Torquer » Wed Jun 18 2014, 02:54

It certainly helps matters that Senator David Fawcett is at least technically competent as the majority of key players in this discussion, and more so than most. Doing your research is one thing, but making sure that the answers to your Estimates questions are actually answered is another. CASA have some serious skin in this game now, and with recent reviews on the agency's approach to the regulatory environment showing that improvements are required in this space, you would think that they be more amenable to industry concerns rather than simply digging in over the current position of CVD.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby bangequalsbad » Wed Jun 18 2014, 08:00

I don't know what the big fuss is about...all the grey lights work fine in my cockpit.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby scobie » Wed Jun 18 2014, 09:33

Have read through the info and watched the link and was wandering if anyone knows if this will affect people with a mild case of CVD that have passed the lantern test and have no restrictions on their license?
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Twistgrip » Wed Jun 18 2014, 09:44

Here is some literature Ive found on the net, I know its a few years old but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.color-blindness.com/2010/02/21/new-color-blindness-tests-sets-minimal-requirements-for-professional-flight-crew/
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Torquer » Thu Jun 19 2014, 01:48

Mr Gibson said any changes to regulation in Australia would be subject to extensive consultation. "If there is any change to the way that colour vision issues are approached in Australia, there'll be full consultation with pilots and the aviation industry, they'll get a chance to put their views forward, and that will take place over many months, possibly even into years," he said.


That shouldn't have taken a protracted series of questions within Senate Estimates to get to this point. And it certainly doesn't explain the tone nor the language in the CASA letter to the aviation sector/industry. Keep applying the blowtorch.
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Re: letter from CASA re colour vision deficiency

Postby Meatloaf » Thu Jun 19 2014, 10:32

According to CASA, out of 36,000 Australian pilots, about 400 have colour vision deficiency and of those, 140 flew commercial operations.


That makes me feel rather unique.

I honestly thought it was a far greater number than that, being only a few hundred perhaps, makes it easy for CASA to proceed without a huge amount of protest...

What struck me in that article and on the CASA frequently asked questions page was while it sounded reassuring in the short term, they still didn't mention any action once they've completed the "full consultation with pilots and the aviation industry"
and now for something completely different

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