Is the grass greener?

Max wok
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Is the grass greener?

Postby Max wok » Wed Feb 13 2013, 11:39

G'day all,

I'm just after some opinions from those who have moved from ADF crewman to civi jobs, any pros or cons. I am fully aware that it will depend on what company you work for on the outside. The reason for this question is, that I have seen a few guys move over, only to be back in a few years time.

Cheers,
Max
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cassidy_copter
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby cassidy_copter » Thu Feb 14 2013, 00:45

Max wok wrote-
The reason for this question is, that I have seen a few guys move over, only to be back in a few years time.


Typically, the reason that many former service members return is they miss the camaraderie, the fraternity, the structure and discipline of the military. It is like living in an eggshell. When I left the military, I had no idea where I would rent an apartment, go shopping, etc. I found my military mindset gave me the confidence to do any job, but put me at odds with people whom had no military discipline or thought process. Also, in a civilian environment they may approach the same task differently, certainly with less structure. Their planning is different and sometimes more thorough and thoughtful, in the common sense approach it tends to take, versus done to the lowest common denominator and for a tick in the box, according to AR 95-1, for example. Back in 1982, when I separated from Active Duty, I believed I was a very proficient and well versed Instrument pilot, until one day I had a flight with a Student Pilot in an Aeroplane fitted with an King KNS-80 RNAV. In the Army, we would consider it a lucky day, to be assigned an aircraft with an ILS, for example. Mostly, we flew with VOR and ADF (Automatic Direction Finder -not Australian Defence Force), in Instrument Conditions. Another point you will find different is the way you dress . . . shined shoes, pressed and starched shirt, straight "gig line", short hair cut . . . Amazingly people still ask me if I am a Cop or in the Army, when they first meet me, though I have not worn the uniform for twenty years.

Typically, in the civilian world of Aviation, at the end of the day or flight, when the paperwork is done, we return home and to our own little worlds. So, we feel a bit lost. Within the first year or two of leaving the military, it is the most difficult and the yearning to return to what is familiar is very strong.

The exception to that would be in a civilian operation where most of the guys are ex-military. I have been in organisations like that and the fun continued, until the culture had changed with a new Chief Pilot, retirements, and a union taking the company into a death grip. The fun was gone and I moved on to bigger and better.

Further, along this line of thought, when I served in the military (1974 to 1994), there was a strong drinking culture . . . At the end of the duty day, go to the Enlisted Club or Officer's Club, for a meal and drinks with the guys. Membership and participation was mandatory -and one's Efficiency Report depended on socialising. We would generally get up to all kinds of mischief, and would be seated around a table, often with our Commander, raising glasses and hell! You will not find that in the civilian world. It is and needs to be very sober, for safety sake. I reflect back on my military service and shake my head. Too much fun. I recall flying with this particular fun-loving Army Instructor Pilot and part of my Annual flight check was to set the Huey's toe of the skid onto the roof of a Sani-hut, out in our training area, without knocking it over or crushing it. Maybe someone was inside. And, more serious fun . . .

So, the long and short of it is . . . the economy is not so sure-footed, for the foreseeable future. If you have a solid trade and can work in the mines then you are golden, if you work in a resources sector where the demand is high. If not, then you will experience difficult times ahead, until the Global Financial Crisis is done and dusted.

I left active military service, during a period of deep economic recession, a glut of pilots in the job market and working for a real bitch (Chief Flight Instructor) as an R-22 Instructor, getting paid mostly $300/month -1982. Don't make the same mistake(s), please.

IF you are lucky enough to land a job with the Police as a Crewman, then you will fit in better and have a long rewarding career around guys whom think and carry themselves like us.

DO NOT LEAVE THE MILITARY WITHOUT A GUARANTEED JOB THAT YOU KNOW YOU WILL BE SATISFIED WITH AND WHO WILL BE HAPPY TO KEEP YOU FOR THE NEXT 5 YEARS. Do not give away your military career, just yet. Consider the value of retirement pension + superannuation, when you are 65 +

Meanwhile, if you are determined to leave the military, plan ahead, plan your exit strategy, convert any unused Annual Leave to cash or use it to do your civilian training courses, if the ADF allows it. Seek career counselling, if offered by the military. Develop your curriculum vitae. Keep up-to-date with your mates whom left the military prior to you to see if the employer they are with needs another full-time, permanent Crewman.

In civilian Aviation, the grass may seem greener, but it still has to be regularly mowed and has a lot of noxious weeds amongst it . . . Management, Co-workers and Operationally!

Best wishes.



[Damn Spell-checker!!!]
Never take "No" for an answer.
Dauphin
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby Dauphin » Thu Feb 14 2013, 23:24

As you probably already know, the answer to your question depends on what you are leaving behind and where you are going. There is no black and white answer, and what suits one person is not necessarily going to suit another. The best people to answer your question will be those who have already made the jump. I suggest you ring the operating bases of any of the organizations you are interested in working for and ask to speak to any ex military crewman who work there. There are plenty of them (ex mil crewman) around so you shouldn't have any trouble tracking down a few. I have worked with 3 or 4 in the last couple of years who seem happy enough to have switched over.
halfwing
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby halfwing » Sun Feb 24 2013, 08:31

In a word.... Yes.

Depending on who you work for, your roster, the blokes you work with and if the base you work at is busy and rewarding.

I made the switch at a time when family was becoming much more important than 'cool flying' and don't regret it for a second.

Where I work now, about 50% of the Aircrew are ex military, so we still have a good laugh and carry on..

Your best bet is to go to a place where you think you might like to work, say g'day, meet and talk to the guys working there, ask lots of questions, look at the aircraft and form your own opinion..... that's what I did and that's how o found out there wad a job coming up.......

....... the rest is history.

PS. I look back on my military time very fondly, but it was good to leave before I had 3 divorces, made warrant officer and got all bitter and twisted;)

If you haven't turned into a 'military moron' yet then you should have minimal stress making the transition to civi world.... ;)
Max wok
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby Max wok » Sun Feb 24 2013, 11:20

Thanks gents, all good points. I think you hit the nail on the head there HW.
Smackhawk
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby Smackhawk » Thu Feb 28 2013, 12:56

Cassidy and HW are spot on.... well said chaps.

Hey Max, aren't things green enough where you're at right now ? :wink:

SH
Max wok
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Re: Is the grass greener?

Postby Max wok » Fri Mar 1 2013, 06:49

Yeah, green and wet!

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