ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

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shagster
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ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby shagster » Sat Oct 31 2009, 06:01

Quick Question, when you do the CPLs you have to go over your KDRs when you do your flight test. (more of a pain then learning the stuff properly in the first place!)
What happens to your KDRs for your ATPLs? Do you get tested somewhere down the line on them? (Yea I still did not learn the stuff properly the first time!)

Also just wondering where I can find information on the hour requirement for the ATPL's to become effective? I seem to remember reading something about Co-pilot ops not counting in there entirety and you need so many pilot in command hours as a part of the total hours, do ICUS count as PIC?

Thanks for any help guys.

(First post yeehaa, and I don't think I have offended anyone yet!!) :D
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skypig
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby skypig » Sat Oct 31 2009, 07:56

5.181 Aeronautical experience: minimum requirements
(1) For the purposes of paragraph 5.174 (1) (e), a person’s
aeronautical experience must consist of at least 1,500 hours of
flight time that includes 750 hours as pilot of a helicopter.
(2) The 750 hours mentioned in subregulation (1) must include at
least 450 hours of flight time as pilot in command.
(3) The balance of the 1,500 hours of flight time mentioned in
subregulation (1) must consist of any 1 or more of the
following:
(a) up to 750 hours of flight time as pilot of a helicopter;
(b) up to 750 hours of recognised flight time as pilot of:
(i) a powered aircraft; or
(ii) a glider (other than a hang glider);
(c) up to 200 hours flight time as a flight engineer or a flight
navigator calculated in accordance with subregulation
5.182 (5) and the balance of the flight time under
paragraph (a) or (b).

5.182 Aeronautical experience: calculation of flight time
(1) For the purposes of subregulation 5.181 (2), the flight time as
pilot in command may include not more than 150 hours as pilot
acting in command under supervision.

(2) For the purposes of subregulation 5.181 (3), not more than
100 hours in an approved synthetic flight trainer may be
substituted for an equal amount of the flight time mentioned in
that subregulation.
(3) The 100 hours mentioned in subregulation (2) must not include
more than 25 hours in a synthetic flight trainer that is not a
flight simulator.
(4) CASA may approve a synthetic flight trainer for the purposes
of subregulation (2).
(5) In calculating the hours of flight time for the purposes of
paragraph 5.181 (3) (c):
(a) each 3 hours of flight engineer time in regular public
transport operations is counted as 1 hour of flight time;
and
(b) each 4 hours of flight navigator time in regular public
transport operations is counted as 1 hour of flight time.
(6) Each period of flight time flown by a person as a pilot, but not
flown:
(a) as pilot in command; or
(b) as pilot acting in command under supervision; or
(c) in dual flying;
must be halved in calculating the person’s flight time for the
purposes of regulation 5.181.


http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legisla ... 88Vol2.pdf

A great idea for most pilots is to get hold of an “index” of rules. The one I’ve got at the moment is AFTs “Air Law Index”. Very useful – even makes me appear less dumb than I actually am. :D

Can't help you with the KDR part of your question - someone?

SP 8) 8)
Sliprail
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Sliprail » Sat Oct 31 2009, 10:10

Once you have done all the subject exams and passed all, on the last exam you do you will be issued a ATPL Credit print out.
If you meet the experience for issue of the ATPL, all you need to do is fill out the form etc.. and send it to CASA. Your KDR's are not needed for the issue of the licence, they have it all on record.

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bladepitch
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby bladepitch » Sat Oct 31 2009, 13:19

after a phone call to CASA when i requested mine, they said photocopy the last 10 pages (if memory serves) of your log book to send in along side the other appropriate forms for them to reference.
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havick
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby havick » Sat Oct 31 2009, 22:15

Sliprail.... you no longer get a printout saying that you have passed all the exams once you finsh your last one for ATPL. Apparently they stopped this earlier this year. I finshed mine middle of the year, and called CASA to query the fact I wasn't given a results prinout of all 7 exams. They told me it wasn't required and to just send in my KDR sheets signed by the invigilator, as they can obviously see your exam results on their system anyway.
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Les Norton
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Les Norton » Sat Oct 31 2009, 23:54

G'Day everyone,

First post, thought it was time to sign up after looking at this site for a few years now. As for the ATPL's I finished mine only a few months back and I still got a copy of the final print out with all the subjects and pass marks on it. (Same as the CPL one). As for the KDR's, no one checks them, CASA are more interested in the $100 you have to send them. You also have to send in a photo copy of your last 3 pages of your log book and they need to be signed off by an ATO or another CASA approved person. If you have had your CPL for a while you will need to do an english comp test and send that in as well. Fill out the ATPL application form (print of the casa web site), meet the min hour req and you should of jumped all the hoops. Hope this helps...

Les :D
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sun Nov 1 2009, 01:25

They better not ask me to do an English test or they'll have a fight on their hands! :x :x :x
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby BenThomas » Sun Nov 1 2009, 03:04

I think all who have read my posts would know Id be sweating bulletts is I had to do one. Is their a reason for pilots who speak english as a first language to sit the check. If you can read write and speek it enough to sucsessfuly complete you exams and flight tests. Whats the point? Anyway I as I imahine you all have heard people on the radio with some very interestin opinions on the english language anf how it is spoken. :)
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Coriolis » Sun Nov 1 2009, 03:41

Ben, unfortunately, EVERY pilot has to attempt the English Examination (Level 6) at some stage. It does not test the written language, only your ability to speak and comprehend English in the Aviation environment. The other option for you is to remain a Level 4 which is renewable 3 yearly at a cost of $250....your call!
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Freewheel » Sun Nov 1 2009, 03:51

It should be pointed out that the test is to show that you understand english in the context provided.

There is no requirement to understand how the whole farce came about - fortunately!
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:03

Ben, unfortunately, EVERY pilot has to attempt the English Examination (Level 6) at some stage


Hey Coriolis, when could I expect to come across this English test? I haven't seen it in 12 years of flying. I realise it's a relatively recent thing, just wondering when I would come up against it?

CH
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havick
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby havick » Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:20

Capt Hollywood.. You will have to do the engrish test when you apply for your ATPL having completed your 7 written exams.

The reason being all NEW licences require the candidate to have completed the engrish exam.. So you can still fly on your CPL but they won't issue your ATPL until such time as you have ticked the box.

Sounds stupid, but it's just the way it is..
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:29

Sounds stupid, but it's just the way it is..


I've never been one to just put up with a pointless rule and I love a good stoush. I feel a letter to a member of parliament coming on!

What does the test cost?
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havick
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby havick » Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:36

Dont know how much it costs.. But CASA did mine over the phone becuase I was in a little bit of a bind..

A ridiculous as it is, there's no way around it.. trust me I already tried.. The only consolation I got was CASA doing it for free down the phone as a result of ranting enough at them..
Last edited by havick on Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Capt Hollywood
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Capt Hollywood » Sun Nov 1 2009, 04:39

Happy to do it if it's free.
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nzheliwhore
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby nzheliwhore » Sun Nov 1 2009, 07:27

I can see your piont about the english language test CH. In my opinion it is a farst. However it does have its merits ,, and those that have flown in airspace around some flight schools where international student train will see this.
I did the test last year,$100 but got it on the back of my aussie licence, ( casa $25 fee ). I have been flying for over 30 years and hold commercial licences on fixed and rotor in 4 countries, could not see the piont for myself coming from an english speaking country but we all have to do it. It will speed things up if you ever get a foreign licence.
The trick now for me ,,,is to get it printed on all four licences.

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shagster
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby shagster » Sun Nov 1 2009, 08:55

Thanks for your time on that skypig, and for everybody else who has answered, very much appreciated.
I look forward to this engrish test... its probably outsourced to some Indian call centre in Abu Dubai run by the Chinese! (Because that's more efficient and cost saving!) Im glad it's not a written test they would all do far better than me, Dyslextric as hell!! I hope ATC have to do the same test.
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Heliduck » Sun Nov 1 2009, 09:01

ATC must get the same test as auctioneer - how many words can you fit into 10 seconds!!
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Les Norton
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Les Norton » Sun Nov 1 2009, 13:35

From what I can gather there is a few grade 1 instructors and ATO's running around that have appilied to CASA and are able to carry out the english test, there is nothing in it if your first language is English, its literally just a matter of having a chat and proving you can speak english and you will get a level 6. As for the cost, I'm not sure if there is a set price, I think it comes down to the individual and how much beer money they need that week.
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Re: ATPL KDR's and ATPL hours?

Postby Big Beres » Sun Nov 1 2009, 22:50

I need some help here guys/girls, I've been on the phone today with CASA Flight Crew Licencing (bloody unhelpful lot)

I sit my last ATPL exam in Canberra in a few weeks and wanted to hand deliver all the documents to them, before flying home after the exam.
Was told on the phone today that I couldn't hand deliver them to their Canberra Office but had to post then in )c/ seems strange :roll:

Can an ATO site your log book and sign off as certified copies? And if so how many pages of your log book do you need to send off to CASA as the very helpful lady at Flight Crew Licencing seemed to have no idea.

Do most people hand their ATPL applications into a CASA regional office or post the documents, reason why I ask is I live along way from any CASA regional office.

Of cause this is all dependant on me passing the exam ....... :?
Thanks in advance

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