float endorsement

Endosements, Ratings and Certificates.
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black duck
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float endorsement

Postby black duck » Mon Dec 28 2009, 11:50

I'm looking at doing a float endorsement (light, piston), just wondering who's doing them and what machines there using?
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Crusty
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Re: float endorsement

Postby Crusty » Mon Dec 28 2009, 12:06

I noticed Sydney Helicopters have a B47 on floats not sure if they endorse on it, But give them a call at Rosehill Sydney
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black duck
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Re: float endorsement

Postby black duck » Mon Dec 28 2009, 20:30

Thanks Crusty, a 47 would be perfect.
Cheers, BD
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bule
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Re: float endorsement

Postby bule » Tue Dec 29 2009, 07:28

What's involved in a float endorsement?
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skypig
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Re: float endorsement

Postby skypig » Tue Dec 29 2009, 09:36

Like any endorsement – all normal and emergency procedures (practical and theory). No minimum flight time – competency based. (from memory). As always more info in the regs. :D

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black duck
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Re: float endorsement

Postby black duck » Tue Dec 29 2009, 21:57

You forgot to mention the floaties "paddling pig" and never straight after a meal. Oh and it's alway wise to stay in the shallow end until you build your confidence up!
I feel like a duck out of water, BD :?
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bule
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Re: float endorsement

Postby bule » Wed Dec 30 2009, 08:40

Ok all normal and emergency procedures etc just like any other rating... So similar to a FW float rating in terms of theory then practical

But does this just apply to helis with fixed flotation gear that's permanently inflated? and makes regular water landings?? I fly with pop outs and have only ever read the book with 0 water landings.. would prefer if it stayed this way also. I wasn't aware that anyone would make regular heli water landings like the fixed wing canoe drivers do all day? must have to keep the pedal in? who uses this? and i guess any swell wouldn't be to much fun
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CYHeli
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Re: float endorsement

Postby CYHeli » Wed Dec 30 2009, 11:06

Also check the AOC. There are not many 9but are some) that are not permitted to use fixed float landings. Check the last section of yours...
I also knew of one instructor that would not sign off on a float end unless the pilot had recently done a HUET. Your thoughts?
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black duck
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Re: float endorsement

Postby black duck » Wed Dec 30 2009, 13:10

Short answer Bule is yep,the long answer is, a pilot cannot operate a helicopter with fixed floats unless he has a float endorsement (CAO 40.3.0) even if he/she is endorsed on that particular model, I guess due to the different handling characteristics as well as the water ops side off it. So pretty much the same as for planks. Not many doing it now, I know I'm having trouble finding anyone I can do the endorsement with. As for uses of fixed floats ? :D Image
Also very handy if your working in an area where terrain and vegitation wont allow landings (and you've got a puddle or two around!), some parts ofthe Kimberly coast are a good example.
Thinking about it the HUET thing is not a bad idea Cy, if anyone was going to need it, you would think it would be someone doing water ops.,as well as the people doing over water,rigs ect, that are required to do it.
Cheers, BD :D
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Re: float endorsement

Postby CaptSpry » Wed Dec 30 2009, 23:04

Hi all,

If you PM me with an address I can send you a copy of a Float Training Manual written for the Bell 47 and Bell 206 on fixed floats.

Just a bit of history; when these operations were fashionable, once upon a time; accidents stastics showed that for every hour flown on water operations, it was more risky than agricultural work. Ag pilots still have a high loss rate due the nature of their work - both FW and RW.

In later years the fixed floats were so much better. Remember to look at your flight manual and note the deployment speeds or read the ATSB report on the sad loss of people on a Bell 206 off Gladstone a decade or so ago.

I would hope this manual may help someone from using their HUET or dog paddling skills.

Happy New Year to Bladeslapper fans and the team who provide this free service.
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Re: float endorsement

Postby helothere » Thu Dec 31 2009, 05:59

Aw shucks CaptSpry, happy new year. All the best for the future fellow 'slappers, it begins tomorrow... The future that is...
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hand in pants
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Re: float endorsement

Postby hand in pants » Thu Dec 31 2009, 08:18

CYHeli, don't know why he won't sign somebody off without a HUET, it is definately not required. I would hope the instructor tells his students this before doing the endorsement.
Granted it is a good idea, but not a requirement.
You don't need a float endorsement for pop outs either.
And I found out recently that an R44 with fixed floats is only allowed to use them in an emergency............ Thought that was a bit strange.
Hand in Pants, I'm thinking, my god, that IS huge!!!!!!!!
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Re: float endorsement

Postby skypig » Fri Jan 1 2010, 00:49

Just to clarify :D

Scenario:
You fly a helicopter to a maintenance facility, they fit fixed floats. Unless you hold a float endorsement you can’t now legally taxi it to the fuel bowser. (In fact I guess you wouldn’t even be allowed to start it. :o )

As HIP stated – pop outs don’t count. :D
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Jabberwocky
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Re: float endorsement

Postby Jabberwocky » Fri Jan 1 2010, 09:44

hand in pants wrote:And I found out recently that an R44 with fixed floats is only allowed to use them in an emergency............ Thought that was a bit strange.


They sit quite low in the water when on the floats.
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skypig
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Re: float endorsement

Postby skypig » Fri Jan 1 2010, 10:09

They sit quite low in the water when on the floats.


I have a vague memory of taping up vents on the bottom of the R44 before landing on water – plus this might of meant that the heater had to be left on the whole time as the “vent” was a heater bypass outlet. Of course this was before decimal currency and Alzheimer’s, and decimal currency..... :idea:

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Re: float endorsement

Postby bladepitch » Sun Jan 3 2010, 01:40

skypig wrote:I have a vague memory of taping up vents on the bottom of the R44 before landing on water


your memeory is spot on. (although i never worried about the heater bypass issue) i flew fixed float for a few years and this was normal procedure.
they do sit a little bum heavy if your landing with only pilot on board ( as per normal hard deck landing ) it was taped twice. once around the air filter rim, second, along all the external panel joints underneath the aircraft. its not unusual to have only a foot clearance underneath the chopper sittin in the water.
(44 that is)

hand in pants wrote:And I found out recently that an R44 with fixed floats is only allowed to use them in an emergency............ Thought that was a bit strange.


i did a heap of water landings just for fun and practise until the boss pointed out that we cant do them anymore do to insurance requirements.
( we were only covered in the event of a real emergency or check and training, we still had to notify the insurance company that we were doing them)
HIP, was there a reg issue ?, i cant remember seeing it...
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Re: float endorsement

Postby Pegs » Sun Jan 3 2010, 01:52

BD,
i love that pic, I can think of a few places that might come in real handy (not all in the kimberley either), mud flats get a bit sticky on the feet, better to avoid them all togeather. :lol: :wink:
A good idea needs landing gear as well as wings to get off the ground.
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Re: float endorsement

Postby wheatbix » Sun Jan 3 2010, 02:41

bladepitch wrote:
hand in pants wrote:And I found out recently that an R44 with fixed floats is only allowed to use them in an emergency............ Thought that was a bit strange.


HIP, was there a reg issue ?, i cant remember seeing it...


Bladepitch afaik it's quoted in the fixed float supplement of the flight manual as being for emergency and training use only.
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Re: float endorsement

Postby bladepitch » Sun Jan 3 2010, 03:10

ahh thats right... thankyou.

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