Advanced Training Recommendations
- b3n.n3lson
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Feb 2011
Advanced Training Recommendations
Gents/Ladies,
Recently completed my CPL all R22 Hours with V2.
I am looking for some guidance into where to next.
One thing a CPL training program doesn't provide is career advice.
Seems the only advice people are willing to offer is, "oh you need to work as a hanger rat and learn the ropes." If this is the case why not put a unit in the syllabus that teaches you the daily operations within an operation so when we finish we don't step backwards, but excel forwards as a useful asset to a company.
Well I completely understand working your way up, but even a doctor works along side other doctors. Paramedics work on road with clinical educators and fellow paramedics, grad police are taken on the street with their senior constables and so the list goes on.
So my question is why is a newly graduated pilot expected to clean hangers, run customer service and load passengers for a year before they are eligible for a flight.
How does this make our sky's safer? Our pilots more experienced or expose them to different flight conditions and operations.
If the industry is serious about making the industry safer, our pilots better and fostering dedicated individuals. Why not offer a mentorship program which sees jnr pilots fly along side snr pilots and experience a wide variety of flying operations and conditions.
This type of program is utilised heavily across a variety of industries, perhaps it's time for this one to catch up.
As this will not happen anytime soon, I will continue to invest in my own education in an endeavour to meet my own expectations and gain as much experience as I can. Question is where to start?
Low Level, Sling, Night VFR, IREX, Turbine, R44 or 66, Agriculture, Mustering.
I imagine my first role will be on a scenic charter on a 44 and eventually a turbine if I am lucky.
So I am calling upon your experience as either someone who has recently faced this challenge or hires new pilots.
End of rant.
Yours sincerely,
Pilot seeking direction.
Recently completed my CPL all R22 Hours with V2.
I am looking for some guidance into where to next.
One thing a CPL training program doesn't provide is career advice.
Seems the only advice people are willing to offer is, "oh you need to work as a hanger rat and learn the ropes." If this is the case why not put a unit in the syllabus that teaches you the daily operations within an operation so when we finish we don't step backwards, but excel forwards as a useful asset to a company.
Well I completely understand working your way up, but even a doctor works along side other doctors. Paramedics work on road with clinical educators and fellow paramedics, grad police are taken on the street with their senior constables and so the list goes on.
So my question is why is a newly graduated pilot expected to clean hangers, run customer service and load passengers for a year before they are eligible for a flight.
How does this make our sky's safer? Our pilots more experienced or expose them to different flight conditions and operations.
If the industry is serious about making the industry safer, our pilots better and fostering dedicated individuals. Why not offer a mentorship program which sees jnr pilots fly along side snr pilots and experience a wide variety of flying operations and conditions.
This type of program is utilised heavily across a variety of industries, perhaps it's time for this one to catch up.
As this will not happen anytime soon, I will continue to invest in my own education in an endeavour to meet my own expectations and gain as much experience as I can. Question is where to start?
Low Level, Sling, Night VFR, IREX, Turbine, R44 or 66, Agriculture, Mustering.
I imagine my first role will be on a scenic charter on a 44 and eventually a turbine if I am lucky.
So I am calling upon your experience as either someone who has recently faced this challenge or hires new pilots.
End of rant.
Yours sincerely,
Pilot seeking direction.
Ben
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
- haroldthehelicopter
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Dec 2012
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
If you're really keen you could apply for this program: SureTrack Program 2014 - Australia through Bristow. Never heard of it myself, but just saw it on their recruitment page http://app01.bristowgroup.com/careers/positions.php.
Looks like a good entry level scheme for career minded young pilots who don't want to go through the standard "hangar rat" scheme or military.
Seems to be perfect for some on this forum to look into. Maybe someone in the know on BS could expand on this program and its success??
HtH
Looks like a good entry level scheme for career minded young pilots who don't want to go through the standard "hangar rat" scheme or military.
Seems to be perfect for some on this forum to look into. Maybe someone in the know on BS could expand on this program and its success??
HtH
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Nov 2013
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Ben,
You raise some valid points, unfortunately helicopters and aviation do not follow standard logic.
Harsh as it may sound , you should of selected a school that had a work place opportunity at the end of your training , otherwise you will be just another number pumped out of the school.
The off shore operators like CHC, Bristow and now Bond Australia do the senior pilot mentoring the junior pilot thing, again there are that many pilots now chasing those jobs , its getting harder now days.
The Onshore operators, specifically Joy flight operators, don't have the capacity to put you on board, its generally down to weight and fuel.
In your position I would look may be completing your ATPL credits , forget irex, until you have over a 1000 hours, complete your low level rating , and possibly get an R44 type rating , and then go on the big road trip.
If you are lucky you may get an office job/ hangar job, but you won't be flying straight off the bat.
I see your based in brisbane , go and see Gold Coast helitours ......
Good luck
You raise some valid points, unfortunately helicopters and aviation do not follow standard logic.
Harsh as it may sound , you should of selected a school that had a work place opportunity at the end of your training , otherwise you will be just another number pumped out of the school.
The off shore operators like CHC, Bristow and now Bond Australia do the senior pilot mentoring the junior pilot thing, again there are that many pilots now chasing those jobs , its getting harder now days.
The Onshore operators, specifically Joy flight operators, don't have the capacity to put you on board, its generally down to weight and fuel.
In your position I would look may be completing your ATPL credits , forget irex, until you have over a 1000 hours, complete your low level rating , and possibly get an R44 type rating , and then go on the big road trip.
If you are lucky you may get an office job/ hangar job, but you won't be flying straight off the bat.
I see your based in brisbane , go and see Gold Coast helitours ......
Good luck
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Jul 2012
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
oei wrote:you should of selected a school that had a work place opportunity at the end of your training
Not that there's ever any guarantee that they would pick you up anyway. In fact, you might even choose a school based on potential employment opportunities and then have the chief pilot tell you on your first week, "Oh, the business has been sold and is no longer part of the group which might have employed you..."
- helothere
- Sensei
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Sep 2005
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Part of the idea of having you around doing seemingly menial tasks for a while is to find out who you really are before letting you near a very expensive piece of equipment. You have a fresh licence which now allows you to really learn to fly and acquire experience. Without this experience you are a completely unknown entity. Try putting yourself in the shoes of the owner/operator, would you let a stranger borrow your $600,000 car without finding out a bit about them first? Would you risk your reputation, livelyhood and the safety of the public to a complete stranger? Doing this sort of thing also allows you to prove your worth as an asset to an employer, everyone wants value for money. Once you have proved yourself, the mentoring will begin. Your skills will be a direct reflection of the Company you fly for so it's in the best interests of an operator for you to posses a good skill set, which only he/she can provide at this early stage.
You need to decide where you would like to be in 5 years. If the answer is flying anything bigger than 5700kg, then attack your ATPL and IREX subjects and get an R44 endorsement. Unless you join a cadet program you will need to gain some experience before you'll get a look in with any of the Offshore Companies; consider 1000 hours a minimum.
Keep in mind that throwing money at endorsements/ratings is not a surefire way of getting a job. An operator will not be impressed by a shopping list of qualifications with only 105 hours in your logbook.
If you don't like the idea of sweeping hangars or making coffee, maybe you could look at using other skills you have to offer such as computing, electrical, whatever you have. If you really don't like making coffee, make the first one really bad so you don't get asked again
Good luck, be persistent and complain in private. You will succeed if you want to succeed.
You need to decide where you would like to be in 5 years. If the answer is flying anything bigger than 5700kg, then attack your ATPL and IREX subjects and get an R44 endorsement. Unless you join a cadet program you will need to gain some experience before you'll get a look in with any of the Offshore Companies; consider 1000 hours a minimum.
Keep in mind that throwing money at endorsements/ratings is not a surefire way of getting a job. An operator will not be impressed by a shopping list of qualifications with only 105 hours in your logbook.
If you don't like the idea of sweeping hangars or making coffee, maybe you could look at using other skills you have to offer such as computing, electrical, whatever you have. If you really don't like making coffee, make the first one really bad so you don't get asked again
Good luck, be persistent and complain in private. You will succeed if you want to succeed.
- Mongrel Dog
- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 446
- Joined: Feb 2006
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
helothere wrote:If you really don't like making coffee, make the first one really bad so you don't get asked again
Unless of course you're Ferrari Flyer in which case you'll be hit with a torrent of abuse and told to do it again and properly. Nescafe Blend 43. Really!
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- Gold Wings
- Posts: 170
- Joined: May 2013
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
helothere wrote:
If you don't like the idea of sweeping hangars or making coffee, maybe you could look at using other skills you have to offer such as computing, electrical,
Electrical ?? Do the lights go out ???
I think really the Industry is suffering from an oversupply of pilots which will take some time to eliminate .The new extra study ,extra hours needed , no hecs type support in NZ, costs etc coming in from 2014 will stop a few newbies I think going forward and make the oversupply in this Industry reduce ...KN
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- 1st Dan
- Posts: 223
- Joined: Jan 2008
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Unfortunately the menial jobs don't end once you have a few thousand hours in your log book. I know offshore sky gods earning over $200k a year who spend the odd Sunday morning on tour washing company cars and polishing helicopters.
- Eric Hunt
- 3rd Dan
- Posts: 914
- Joined: Sep 2006
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
The reason that operators don't bung a bograt into the left seat for experience is that the operator just lost 25% of his revenue (if a B206 or R44) or 100% in an R22. The weight issues, loss of revenue, and the inability of the command pilot to allow the boggie to even touch the controls on a job will rule out this mentoring.
A new pilot has just spent his life savings to get his ticket, but as stated before, just because you traded your L plates for red P plates doesn't entitle you to hop into a Formula 1 car and go for a blast around the block. You will cut your teeth on something basic and perform menial tasks until you have shown that your demeanour warrants a bit more trust. And as stated above, us Sky Gods still have to wash the machines in quiet times, vacuum the offices, but if one of the senior gods asks for coffee, he will only do it once..... Pablo is even worse than Maxwell Horse or International Roast.
A new pilot has just spent his life savings to get his ticket, but as stated before, just because you traded your L plates for red P plates doesn't entitle you to hop into a Formula 1 car and go for a blast around the block. You will cut your teeth on something basic and perform menial tasks until you have shown that your demeanour warrants a bit more trust. And as stated above, us Sky Gods still have to wash the machines in quiet times, vacuum the offices, but if one of the senior gods asks for coffee, he will only do it once..... Pablo is even worse than Maxwell Horse or International Roast.
- CYHeli
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Jun 2006
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Hey Ben,
Remember that flying is a very small (although the best) part of this industry.
If you are going to fly tourists, then you need to have a sales technique. You will be tour guide Barbie! Be friendly and bubbly.
If you want to get ahead in the game, show the boss that you will be the best employee, let him decide who is the best pilot.
Your time will come, and the old expression of being in the right place at the right time...
My first ride in an A109 was with Heli who posts here. I got to tag along simply because I was in the right place with the right friendly attitude at the right time. I got to load some pax for him and have a fun ride and have my first landing on a floating pontoon. All I did was sit there and watch him do it, but a contact made.
I never went flying with him again as circumstances changed, but through another contact I wound up flying an MD500 and getting almost 30 hours for free and all the endorsement cost me was the price of the fuel. The owner later sold that and he moved back into an R44.
Who cares where the journey takes you. By hanging around you will meet people. If they like you they will mentor you and develop you. But be friendly and be ready for when the time comes. Oh and be prepared to move!
Good luck.
Remember that flying is a very small (although the best) part of this industry.
If you are going to fly tourists, then you need to have a sales technique. You will be tour guide Barbie! Be friendly and bubbly.
If you want to get ahead in the game, show the boss that you will be the best employee, let him decide who is the best pilot.
Your time will come, and the old expression of being in the right place at the right time...
My first ride in an A109 was with Heli who posts here. I got to tag along simply because I was in the right place with the right friendly attitude at the right time. I got to load some pax for him and have a fun ride and have my first landing on a floating pontoon. All I did was sit there and watch him do it, but a contact made.
I never went flying with him again as circumstances changed, but through another contact I wound up flying an MD500 and getting almost 30 hours for free and all the endorsement cost me was the price of the fuel. The owner later sold that and he moved back into an R44.
Who cares where the journey takes you. By hanging around you will meet people. If they like you they will mentor you and develop you. But be friendly and be ready for when the time comes. Oh and be prepared to move!
Good luck.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
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- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 310
- Joined: May 2010
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
The qualifications you will need to be employable are R44 endorsement and Low Level.
Then it's just a case of knocking on doors and hanging around where the work is, if you hang around and get yourself known you will get a flying job. It really is that simple. The blokes who never find jobs don't hang around for long enough or stay in the city hoping to get a job over the phone.
Good luck, it's a great journey and you will meet lots of interesting characters and see places that most Australians will never see.
Then it's just a case of knocking on doors and hanging around where the work is, if you hang around and get yourself known you will get a flying job. It really is that simple. The blokes who never find jobs don't hang around for long enough or stay in the city hoping to get a job over the phone.
Good luck, it's a great journey and you will meet lots of interesting characters and see places that most Australians will never see.
- b3n.n3lson
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Feb 2011
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Gents,
Many thanks for the supporting comments.
This thread was by no means a whinge session, but an attempt to gain some true guidance into where to next in my education and career.
As most of you alluded to, using your previous skill set is the avenue I am looking at. However again not too many of these opportunities are advertised openly, so I will have to keep my ear to the ground.
My background is not as an electrician, however it is quite diverse; Military, Paramedic Roles Throughout the World, Safety and Training within the Natural Resources Sector, Expedition SuperYacht Security and Medical Support, Close Personal Protection in the Middle East, Emergency Response/Management and Service Delivery and Contract Management (20M).
So I am hoping to gain a role in either contract management, safety or operational co-ordination to prove my self and gain the trust of an organisation prior to being thrown the keys as you say to a beautiful machine.
I appreciate the input and holding back any slander or negative feedback as most forums are renown for.
R44 and Low Flying Endorsement it is, with perhaps a look at starting my ATPL subjects.
Cheers again, if you hear of any operational support roles i would certainly be keen.
Happy to PM my CV to those interested.
Regards
Many thanks for the supporting comments.
This thread was by no means a whinge session, but an attempt to gain some true guidance into where to next in my education and career.
As most of you alluded to, using your previous skill set is the avenue I am looking at. However again not too many of these opportunities are advertised openly, so I will have to keep my ear to the ground.
My background is not as an electrician, however it is quite diverse; Military, Paramedic Roles Throughout the World, Safety and Training within the Natural Resources Sector, Expedition SuperYacht Security and Medical Support, Close Personal Protection in the Middle East, Emergency Response/Management and Service Delivery and Contract Management (20M).
So I am hoping to gain a role in either contract management, safety or operational co-ordination to prove my self and gain the trust of an organisation prior to being thrown the keys as you say to a beautiful machine.
I appreciate the input and holding back any slander or negative feedback as most forums are renown for.
R44 and Low Flying Endorsement it is, with perhaps a look at starting my ATPL subjects.
Cheers again, if you hear of any operational support roles i would certainly be keen.
Happy to PM my CV to those interested.
Regards
Ben
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
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- Silver Wings
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Feb 2013
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Rule 1, let your work prove who you are, not your mouth.
I'm hoping your school advised you before training that a job is not a guarentee, if not then your research let you down.
Get out there and show operators your prepared to do the hard work, and for a long time.
As others have said, get the ATPL subjects out of the way. An R44 endorsement is a must, I highly doubt you will need any other endorsements. Did u not do low level as part of your license?
I'm hoping your school advised you before training that a job is not a guarentee, if not then your research let you down.
Get out there and show operators your prepared to do the hard work, and for a long time.
As others have said, get the ATPL subjects out of the way. An R44 endorsement is a must, I highly doubt you will need any other endorsements. Did u not do low level as part of your license?
- Yankee
- 2nd Dan
- Posts: 344
- Joined: Aug 2008
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Cleanskin.
I beg to differ regarding Rule 1... Perception is far more important... I've seen a lot of very like-able chaps (and a few chicks) who while fun to be around and work with, produced very poor results... and I've seen Spectacularly professional pilots who were very good at producing results get "the shove" simply because their "personality" was "perceived" as being not compatible with the organization.
Ben, You've seen enough to know this is true... although you "didn't mean to whinge", to many on here (especially the ex hangar rats) you seem to have a sense of entitlement with your new CPL. As previously eluded to, Operators are dealing with pure economics with such things as:- a glut of young pilots, unstable economy, fuel prices, Equipment costs, regulation changes etc, narrow margins... and many are simply a single incident or accident away from having to close shop. I read an article about Beckers helicopters... they struggled with having to choose what bills to pay, can you imagine what would have happened during that time in their growth if they had bent their one and only helicopter?
Be very careful of how you're perceived by everyone in this industry who you come across... Things have a way of following you.
Enjoy the challenges of this career with the knowledge that the enjoyment comes from being on the journey... believe it or not many on here would look back at their times as a "Hangar Rat" as being one of their most enjoyable adventures... even tho at the time it may have been a struggle.
One word of warning... The Career of an Aviator is not conducive towards long term "emotional" relationships. There is a term known as AIDS... and it's very real.
Ben, with your experience you may want to look for opportunities over seas.
Yank
I beg to differ regarding Rule 1... Perception is far more important... I've seen a lot of very like-able chaps (and a few chicks) who while fun to be around and work with, produced very poor results... and I've seen Spectacularly professional pilots who were very good at producing results get "the shove" simply because their "personality" was "perceived" as being not compatible with the organization.
Ben, You've seen enough to know this is true... although you "didn't mean to whinge", to many on here (especially the ex hangar rats) you seem to have a sense of entitlement with your new CPL. As previously eluded to, Operators are dealing with pure economics with such things as:- a glut of young pilots, unstable economy, fuel prices, Equipment costs, regulation changes etc, narrow margins... and many are simply a single incident or accident away from having to close shop. I read an article about Beckers helicopters... they struggled with having to choose what bills to pay, can you imagine what would have happened during that time in their growth if they had bent their one and only helicopter?
Be very careful of how you're perceived by everyone in this industry who you come across... Things have a way of following you.
Enjoy the challenges of this career with the knowledge that the enjoyment comes from being on the journey... believe it or not many on here would look back at their times as a "Hangar Rat" as being one of their most enjoyable adventures... even tho at the time it may have been a struggle.
One word of warning... The Career of an Aviator is not conducive towards long term "emotional" relationships. There is a term known as AIDS... and it's very real.
Ben, with your experience you may want to look for opportunities over seas.
Yank
Last edited by Yankee on Sat Nov 2 2013, 17:32, edited 1 time in total.
Don't think of yourself as and ugly person. Think of yourself as a beautiful monkey.
- helothere
- Sensei
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Sep 2005
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Dauphin wrote:Unfortunately the menial jobs don't end once you have a few thousand hours in your log book. I know offshore sky gods earning over $200k a year who spend the odd Sunday morning on tour washing company cars and polishing helicopters.
A small price to pay for the convenience of a free car with petrol. This is a required piece of equipment without which consumption of coffee and talking crap at the local would be difficult. I for one don't mind polishing the odd aircraft every now and then, it reminds me what the other end of a helicopter looks like...
- b3n.n3lson
- Silver Wings
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Feb 2011
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
As usual a generalized comment and an attempt to gain credible industry information has been misinterpreted as a whinge.
My attempt was to gain some industry specific guidance from the floor of experienced operators, in order to gain some direction.
Looking through this forum, it's apparent that many upstart jnr pilots have come here to whinge and tell you all how unfair it all is.
This was never my intention, clearly denoted by the use of my name as my user name as opposed to most who hide behind quirky avartar names.
I was quite hesitant to post, due the likely ridicule one receives when he/she openly comments or requests guidance.
So my gut was right, I learnt nothing new on current/future industry standards, learnt nothing on what effect the new Part 61 will have on pilot requirements for Australian companies, learnt nothing about the effects of company insurances vs pilot hr requirements.
For those who offered sincere and genuine guidance many thanks.
Anyways off to find a good bucket and sponge seems I going to need to get an endorsement on this too joke lads. Lol
My attempt was to gain some industry specific guidance from the floor of experienced operators, in order to gain some direction.
Looking through this forum, it's apparent that many upstart jnr pilots have come here to whinge and tell you all how unfair it all is.
This was never my intention, clearly denoted by the use of my name as my user name as opposed to most who hide behind quirky avartar names.
I was quite hesitant to post, due the likely ridicule one receives when he/she openly comments or requests guidance.
So my gut was right, I learnt nothing new on current/future industry standards, learnt nothing on what effect the new Part 61 will have on pilot requirements for Australian companies, learnt nothing about the effects of company insurances vs pilot hr requirements.
For those who offered sincere and genuine guidance many thanks.
Anyways off to find a good bucket and sponge seems I going to need to get an endorsement on this too joke lads. Lol
Ben
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return !
- froginasock
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Aug 2008
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Part 61 wont affect your licence with future employers as you have a licence ... it may just require a little more paperwork/flight if you plan to work overseas (nothing different from the current reqs).
R44 - definitely.
Low level (I'm surprised it wasn't in your CPL training) - definitely
Sling/Night/etc - No (you wont be using it for the next 500 odd hours)
ATPL/IREX - work towards it once you are flying for someone building hours
Hangar Rat - some misconception here - even if you have a flying job, this type of role will be a requirement. Regardless of if you are helping with contract management etc, the helicopter you flew doesn't wash itself, the hangar floor doesn't mop itself. Take pride in this role when you get it - jump on the mop - clean the toilet - and make that machine/car shine like new. With your spare time study the industry (& IREX etc) because that's what we look for - proactive - enthusiastic and someone who cares if the hangar floor is dirty.
R44 - definitely.
Low level (I'm surprised it wasn't in your CPL training) - definitely
Sling/Night/etc - No (you wont be using it for the next 500 odd hours)
ATPL/IREX - work towards it once you are flying for someone building hours
Hangar Rat - some misconception here - even if you have a flying job, this type of role will be a requirement. Regardless of if you are helping with contract management etc, the helicopter you flew doesn't wash itself, the hangar floor doesn't mop itself. Take pride in this role when you get it - jump on the mop - clean the toilet - and make that machine/car shine like new. With your spare time study the industry (& IREX etc) because that's what we look for - proactive - enthusiastic and someone who cares if the hangar floor is dirty.
- CYHeli
- 4th Dan
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Jun 2006
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
There is a long time joke about offering to empty the bosses bin after an interview, it enables you to retrieve your CV.
Ben, there is NO one size fits all piece of advice for new pilots. Sorry. Everyone comes out with a licence, but even that is not a level playing field. New Zealanders come over with 150+ hours and Aussies complain about how that's unfair, 'cause we only did a 105 hour course. Even if some do the 125, the still aren't competitive.
Get your low level finished. You needed a min of three hours as part of your CPL, it should be there, finish the last couple. Without it you can't do survey or low level photos. Remember that doesn't mean at 100' it could be simply less than 500 and within 300m of an object you want to photo.
What would you like as a first job?
If it is doing tourism in an R44, get the rating and then get 5 hours PIC for charter. Read the CAO (80.x ??) to confirm this.
A lot of operators require a pilot to have 20 hours on R44 for insurance reasons. This is why I encourage our students to do as much training in an R44 as possible. It makes them more employable. Better than a simple budget R22/H300. The only people who get paid to fly an R22 are musterers and instructors, generally speaking.
Network. Ex students of mine have ferried aircraft from Qld to Perth, Cairns, to SE Qld. Those are hours they didn't need to pay for. It also looks good on your CV to be able to nav around, and not just do left hand circles.
Good luck and keep knocking on doors.
And smile.
Ben, there is NO one size fits all piece of advice for new pilots. Sorry. Everyone comes out with a licence, but even that is not a level playing field. New Zealanders come over with 150+ hours and Aussies complain about how that's unfair, 'cause we only did a 105 hour course. Even if some do the 125, the still aren't competitive.
Get your low level finished. You needed a min of three hours as part of your CPL, it should be there, finish the last couple. Without it you can't do survey or low level photos. Remember that doesn't mean at 100' it could be simply less than 500 and within 300m of an object you want to photo.
What would you like as a first job?
If it is doing tourism in an R44, get the rating and then get 5 hours PIC for charter. Read the CAO (80.x ??) to confirm this.
A lot of operators require a pilot to have 20 hours on R44 for insurance reasons. This is why I encourage our students to do as much training in an R44 as possible. It makes them more employable. Better than a simple budget R22/H300. The only people who get paid to fly an R22 are musterers and instructors, generally speaking.
Network. Ex students of mine have ferried aircraft from Qld to Perth, Cairns, to SE Qld. Those are hours they didn't need to pay for. It also looks good on your CV to be able to nav around, and not just do left hand circles.
Good luck and keep knocking on doors.
And smile.
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
- muppet
- 1st Dan
- Posts: 257
- Joined: Nov 2010
Re: Advanced Training Recommendations
Giggle.There is a long time joke about offering to empty the bosses bin after an interview, it enables you to retrieve your CV.
Young padewan, most of the advice given here is worth listening to. Even the comments made here bemoaning the lack of a clear path within this industry cos they do make some valid points. Sorry if you think some 'upstart junior pilots' are here to 'whinge', but to be fair, aviation in general ain't all it is cracked up to be, and helicopter aviation is in many ways even worse. (This is a forum remember, so threads often take their own path…)
Any prospective career pilot should ask the "Skygods" if they are encouraging their own kids to follow their career paths… As much as I enjoy PARTS of helicopter flying, it would be way down the list of recommended careers for my own offspring. Yes, everybody whinges about their jobs, but pilots excel at it. Fixed wing jockeys sit up front for hours on end debating whether the exorbitant salaries compensate adequately for the boredom and lack of any job satisfaction. Chopper pilots whinge (often justifiably I should add!) about the lack of decent pay, the hours and much of the 'extra crap' they have to do as part of their job. You don't see Doctors or Airline Pilots mopping the hospital floor or the hangar, but somehow the elevated status (that is supposed to accompany the lofty pinnacle of professional excellence) is seriously lacking from our game. (So expect to still be pushing that broom in years to come…) Plenty of ideas around why this is, but it does suck in many ways and I suspect many chopper pilots only realize this when they have finally reached the heights they dreamed of as young CPLs.
Now before any staunch defenders of the realm suggest if I "don't like it then sod off", let me add that I do like it. I just don't like it nearly as much as I thought I would. And I work with some very smart medical people who make my job more interesting. Plus I have other things going on outside aviation to keep me from getting bored. And that would be my recommendation to you: Follow your dream, hang in there and it will happen. (The 44 time advice is worth noting!) But keep your eyes wide open to reality - there ain't no such thing as 'the perfect helicopter job'. It is certainly worth having another angle to pursue later, whether that be specializing within the industry (management, training, safety, projects etc) or having something outside to provide you with some kind of intellectual stimulation. Cos flying is cool and it can be fun, but the novelty wears off. Trust me.
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