Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

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Hardman
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Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Hardman » Sun Feb 16 2020, 10:52

Hi Slappers

I'm looking for an R44 (Raven 1 or 2 considered) for X-hire in SE QLD. To be used for training, scenics and awk.

Also looking for an IFR certified single engine heli for ongoing X-hire.

Any leads appreciated, please PM if you can help.

Cheers 8)
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby havick » Sun Feb 16 2020, 19:30

Pretty sure the only single engine certified IFR aircraft kicking around are Becker’s B206’s he was using on the Saudi contract.

Otherwise you can go and buy a new AW119 that’s certified SPIFR.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Sun Feb 16 2020, 21:58

My understanding is that only one B206 (The one mentioned?) and one B206L have been certified for IFR in Australia.
No other “singles” - Maybe any A119s as mentioned. Not sure if there are any of those currently in OZ.

Makes it much more expensive for IFR testing.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby havick » Sun Feb 16 2020, 22:34

skypig wrote:My understanding is that only one B206 (The one mentioned?) and one B206L have been certified for IFR in Australia.
No other “singles” - Maybe any A119s as mentioned. Not sure if there are any of those currently in OZ.

Makes it much more expensive for IFR testing.


There’s a two year wait anyway for a new SPIFR A119, any new orders pretty much are back of the line to the US Navy training contract that Augusta recently won.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Sun Feb 16 2020, 23:28

The 2 B206 examples were actually certified for IFR. Therefore can be flown legally in IMC*, and used for an IRT (or whatever they are called today.
Of course the subsequent IR would be SE.

* I’ve personally flown one of them 120nm out to sea, in cloud, at night.
Legal - yes. Sensible - debatable.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Eric Hunt » Sun Feb 16 2020, 23:55

I think you will find that Beckers have 5 or 6 certified IFR with glass screens and another couple with round steam dials. He might be in a mood to sell them if you ask nicely, take the glass if you can, it was a terrific setup.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Hardman » Mon Feb 17 2020, 01:55

Thanks for the responses.

The R44 would be for general training and scenics, maybe some basic IF depending on set up.

I know I'm pushing my luck for the IFR machine but you never know if you don't ask.

Thanks
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby havick » Mon Feb 17 2020, 02:03

Might seem like a captain obvious question, but do you have a 141 or 142 certificate to conduct training under? That’s probably a bigger hurdle than getting your hands on a machine.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Hardman » Mon Feb 17 2020, 02:22

Yes we do. :)
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Fill-level » Mon Feb 17 2020, 05:32

The Wagner brothers had a R44 based at the Gold Coast that was IFR certified , try calling them , not sure if they sold it though
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Seagull » Mon Feb 17 2020, 08:52

https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... sue_06.pdf

Page 5, paragraph 11. Limitations. VRF, night VFR, no ice. With out an STC no one is flying IFR in an R44. it’s possible but one would need to do some recertification work. Having the equipment in accordance with CAO20:18 is one thing, being certified for it is another.

That said, I recently flew an R44 with a great set up including glass and the Helisas autopilot. It’s a pretty good platform considering it’s an R44!! They would be really good for training (In VMC) then you just sit the rest in an IFR certified Jettie.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Mon Feb 17 2020, 10:05

skypig wrote:My understanding is that only one B206 (The one mentioned?) and one B206L have been certified for IFR in Australia.
No other “singles” - Maybe any A119s as mentioned. Not sure if there are any of those currently in OZ.

Makes it much more expensive for IFR testing.



I wonder what happened to Clive Palmer's 119? I know Beckers were managing it when his mining company was booming. I have no idea whats happened to it now. Potentially moth balled somewhere???
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Mon Feb 17 2020, 23:30

ALS wrote:
Seagull wrote:That said, I recently flew an R44 with a great set up including glass and the Helisas autopilot. It’s a pretty good platform considering it’s an R44!! They would be really good for training (In VMC) then you just sit the rest in an IFR certified Jettie.


Yes. The Wagner's R44 was configured exactly like this in order to be offered for cross hire instrument training. The key here really comes down to the difference between IFR and IMC, i.e. it's completely normal to fly under instrument flight rules (especially for approaches and departures) while remaining in VMC. That's why the R44 is certified by CASA, FAA, EASA etc for IFR training (and flight test) when appropriately configured and is obviously the cheapest option when combined with the time in a sim. No need to change types to a 206 for the flight test.


Are you sure about this?
You need an IFR certified machine to lodge an IFR plan.

While it is completely normal to fly IFR in IMC, you can’t plan IFR in the expectation that you will remain in VMC - that’s what VFR is for.

I’d suggest you can do IF training in VMC, on a VFR plan, in a suitably equipped AC.
But would require an IFR certified machine for the test.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Eric Hunt » Tue Feb 18 2020, 05:49

Maybe in the US.

In Oz the test has to be done in an IFR-capable machine, which means autopilot and the goodies. Training can be done anywhere in anything, but if the day isn't VMC well above LSALT, you need the real McCoy. Pretty hard to follow an IFR route at hemispherical levels if the cloud is below LSALT.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Tue Feb 18 2020, 10:19

skypig wrote:

Are you sure about this?
You need an IFR certified machine to lodge an IFR plan.

While it is completely normal to fly IFR in IMC, you can’t plan IFR in the expectation that you will remain in VMC - that’s what VFR is for.

I’d suggest you can do IF training in VMC, on a VFR plan, in a suitably equipped AC.
But would require an IFR certified machine for the test.
[/quote][/quote]

I reckon you're wrong.
You don't need and IFR machine for an IFR flight plan. You just tick the box for IFR plan and away you go.
You need an IFR machine to fly in IMC.

I often plan IFR with the expectation to come back in VMC. It means I don't have to wear goggles (at night obviously) as I'm above LSALT. It helps ATC with their sequencing. It expedites my way through busy airspace without having to fly all the way around the outside of the zone.

I did my IF training in VMC on an IFR flight plan in a suitably equipped aircraft (aka; IFR certified machine). How can you train for IFR if you can't log an IFR flight plan???

I do agree with you in regards to requiring an IFR certified machine for the test (which is the same aircraft I daresay you'd be using during your training).
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby skypig » Wed Feb 19 2020, 01:54

“I reckon you're wrong.
You don't need and IFR machine for an IFR flight plan. You just tick the box for IFR plan and away you go.
You need an IFR machine to fly in IMC.”

“Maintain 5000, track direct to the aid. Expect instrument approach. Cloud base currently broken at 500 with lower passing clouds”

You think you can reply something like “need to maintain VMC due AC requirements”??


Do you think an unrated, VFR pilot could be PIC on an IFR flight by “ticking the IFR box and away you go”?
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby muppet » Wed Feb 19 2020, 02:21

with Skypig on this one. Can't see how you can file IFR unless you are capable of going IMC when needed. Asking to be vectored around TS may work, but getting vectored around some fluffy Cu is going to look pretty odd... Pretty sure to file IFR you would also need to tick a few wee boxes like RNAV/RNP capability, which GBNA you can use, radio cert etc for IFR yada yada

You can file for controlled VFR, which sounds like what you are talking about.

And who would actually want to be IMC in a Robbie? or even a single full stop? No thanks. No offence intended, but at least in a Pilatus, a Caravan or even a Cherokee, you have a little bit of time to work out how to avoid the bumps on the way down.
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Eric Hunt » Wed Feb 19 2020, 03:50

To add to this, if you are on an IFR flight plan, you will be flying at IFR altitudes, not VFR altitudes, and getting separation from other traffic as such. They would not be impressed if you say "Unable to maintain 6000', request descent to 2400 to avoid cloud and turn off track as well."
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Wed Feb 19 2020, 09:10

skypig wrote:“I reckon you're wrong.
You don't need and IFR machine for an IFR flight plan. You just tick the box for IFR plan and away you go.
You need an IFR machine to fly in IMC.”

“Maintain 5000, track direct to the aid. Expect instrument approach. Cloud base currently broken at 500 with lower passing clouds”

You think you can reply something like “need to maintain VMC due AC requirements”??


Do you think an unrated, VFR pilot could be PIC on an IFR flight by “ticking the IFR box and away you go”?


Nope. Would last about 30sec in cloud if the latest Vertical magazine is to be trusted (178sec for fixed wing).

We can all make up scenarios that suit our argument; let me counter your 500ft ceiling with a CAVOK day. Tick that IFR flight box and then go fly your IFR lesson. There's a reason why the flight schools are located in places like Merriden, Mangalore, Caloundra, etc... It's to get the fine weather to do the flight training.

I know we've already hijacked this thread, but you're mixing up Commercial Op's with IFR training (which is what this thread originated about).
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Re: Wanted - R44 and SE IFR heli X-hire

Postby Yakking » Wed Feb 19 2020, 09:16

muppet wrote:with Skypig on this one. Can't see how you can file IFR unless you are capable of going IMC when needed. Asking to be vectored around TS may work, but getting vectored around some fluffy Cu is going to look pretty odd... Pretty sure to file IFR you would also need to tick a few wee boxes like RNAV/RNP capability, which GBNA you can use, radio cert etc for IFR yada yada

You can file for controlled VFR, which sounds like what you are talking about.

And who would actually want to be IMC in a Robbie? or even a single full stop? No thanks. No offence intended, but at least in a Pilatus, a Caravan or even a Cherokee, you have a little bit of time to work out how to avoid the bumps on the way down.


Train on a CAVOK day, wear foggles (or whatever they are called), put in a screen. If your aircraft is fitted with the equipment, tick that box too. Easy.

Not talking about controlled VFR, talking about IFR training.
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