Steep turn technique

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Cleanme2
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Steep turn technique

Postby Cleanme2 » Sat Nov 27 2021, 03:50

im flying R22/44 and i am struggling to make my steep turns consistently accurate. Typically i end up descending. I do find my instrument/attitude scan a bit chaotic and end up fixating on something.

anyone got anygood techniques that work??

thanks
Gunga Din
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Gunga Din » Sat Nov 27 2021, 05:13

What are you calling "steep"?
30 degrees?
60 degrees?

The key is a consistent attitude. Before rolling into the turn (after your excellent lookout!) look straight ahead and see the spot on the window directly in front of your eyes on the horizon. Now, roll around that point to the 30 degree attitude, and add a little power. (The lift vector is tilted off the vertical, so you need more Oomph to stay at altitude.)

Sweep that picture around the horizon, same spot on the horizon. When you roll out, spot stays the same, reduce power slightly.

Check yer PMs.
Arm, arm, I Gunga Din, the door slockt.
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skypig
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby skypig » Sat Nov 27 2021, 22:21

Power + Attitude = Performance.

It’s just the power requirements and attitude are less familiar to you.

Try anticipating the power increase, and making it larger (as you usually end up descending.) That is: Start raising the collective as (before?) you roll with the cyclic.

Developing the scan is important. Seeing things early makes it easier. Don’t hesitate when “fixing” inaccuracies (to wait and see if the 50fpm “fixes itself”, or gets worse.). If the VSI indicates a tiny descent - raise the collective a little while moving the scan on to the ADI (Or out the windscreen if visual), then ASI, then check if your correction was good, not enough or too much on the VSI. Do not stop the scan and look at the VSI while trying to “fix” it with collective. Eyes should be on ADI/out the front when making attitude/speed changes.

Also, anticipate what one change will do to other parameters: EG Air speed climbing - Aft cyclic. (Do not stare at the ASI while “fixing” AS - a “natural”, but disastrous mistake) If not climbing/descending as well then the collective will need a nudge down, then probably a nudge up as the AS settles. Anticipating these movements will mean, at worst, you will need smaller movements of the collective later. (In this example)
Cleanme2
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Cleanme2 » Sun Nov 28 2021, 00:02

thanks, i will let you know how i get on!
Wannabe60Driver
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Wannabe60Driver » Sun Nov 28 2021, 22:39

If you’re like most of us, your turn profile in the beginning is going to be quite different in a left turn compared to a right. You’re sitting on one side of the machine, and all of us have one eye, one hand, and one foot that are dominant.

Militaries the world over have proven that the concept of multi-tasking is pretty much BS. Where people differ is the speed they can switch between complex tasks- especially under pressure. That’s why the ADF now uses the same computer-based testing as the Brits and Canadians to predict how well someone can scan instruments while being shot at.

The answer is to figure out a system that works for you. Some that work for others are mentioned above.

My only other comment is that no one is a natural-born rockstar, chef, or helicopter pilot. You’re well-trained and have experience, or you don’t. We all sucked at the beginning of many new skills. Realise it’s an unavoidable part of the process and you’ll move through it faster.
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Rotorpilot
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Rotorpilot » Tue Nov 30 2021, 09:36

Right turn aft cyclic
Left turn slightly forward

Pick a spot straight in front of you in straight and level flight at the desired speed. Then Power attitude balance and keep that spot on the horizon.
Either left turn or right if you keep that spot inline with the horizon you should be able to maitain all parameters and make slight adjustments to maintain.
Dem winds are gonna blow
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Blade
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Blade » Tue Nov 30 2021, 20:47

Actually, I find that the 22/44 picture is very different in a steep turn and that looking directly ahead for a student means they suffer from paralax errors and can not maintain a good airspeed therefore a good height. I suggest you look at the rotor shadow and the horizon and set that at the desired turn angle. Do your pre-turn checks before rolling into the turn then once established in the turn carry out your checks again but look at your rotorshadow while making that adjustment ( never adjust the guage).
Hope that helps.
Gunga Din
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Re: Steep turn technique

Postby Gunga Din » Tue Nov 30 2021, 23:44

You will only get a parallax error if you are looking across the cockpit at where the canopy bow cuts the horizon.

If you choose the spot straight ahead and rotate around it and keep it on the horizon as you sweep around, it will still be spot on when you roll out.

Tried to attach some pix but this dopey website says "pix must be 0 pixels wide and 0 pixels high..." blah blah.
Arm, arm, I Gunga Din, the door slockt.

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